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Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« on: March 18, 2011, 12:18:47 PM »
….according to the head of consumer imaging in Europe

Canon doesn’t need to introduce a mirrorless compact system camera (CSC), according to the head of consumer imaging in Europe, as the company does not have a problem selling its existing compact and DSLR products. In an interview with Amateur Photographer, Rainer Fuehres said that compact system cameras have been introduced by manufacturers that find it difficult to compete in the digital SLR market. Not ruling out the possibility that Canon will enter this area, Rainer stressed that if it did the reason would not be because Canon felt it had to.

Read more at Amateur Photographer

CR Editorial I pretty much disagree with everything Mr. Fuehres said in regards to Canon’s place in the mirrorless world.

Point one, there’s no way Canon as a company thinks, “hey the stuff we sell now is all we need to sell, selling more stuff isn’t worthwhile”. Canon makes money very well and selling stuff in new expanding markets is a no brainer.

Could Canon do it differently than Sony, m4/3 and Samsung? I think they could. There have been rumors Nikon will introduce a mirrorless camera geared to the pro market. If you go after the pro market, you don’t have to worry as much about volume and you’re not competing directly with the consumer level products other manufacturers are producing. If your pro mirrorless camera does well, you can slowly work your way down to the consumer market instead of the other way around.

From my personal experience and what I’ve seen, 80% of the people I know with mirrorless cameras do not own SLRs. That’s a lot of customers Canon does not have. If you fear you’re going to have your DSLR sales cannibalized by mirrorless cameras, just make sure it’s you cannibalizing them.

I will note, most every M9 owner I know has a DSLR system as well. Canon doesn’t need a $7000 mirrorless camera, but something in the $3000 range will give them a solid margin and they don’t have to put crazy amounts of manufacturing resources behind it.

Now his statement about others entering the field because they can’t compete in the DSLR market is somewhat true. Although there’s one company hasn’t had a problem competing in the DSLR field and is doing very well in the mirrorless market, and that’s Sony. They have the resources to match Canon every step of the way.

Canon will introduce a mirrorless camera, and no one in the company will tip their hat to what may be coming.

thanks Ian

cr

« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 02:08:11 PM by Canon Rumors »
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Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« on: March 18, 2011, 12:18:47 PM »

x-vision

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 12:32:43 PM »
There you go.

Just to clarify what the Canon executive is saying:
In executive parlance, 'does not need' means 'no plans to make'.

So, in case anybody is wondering - no, Canon has no plans for a mirrorless at this time.

Mescalamba

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 12:45:07 PM »
Heh "Pride Will Come Before the Fall"?

Thats very stupid. Underestimating opponents is always bad thing to do.

And Panasonic didnt make m4/3s because they couldnt compete in dSLR market. They could, but they sensed bit more opportunities in advanced compact camera market and anyway they were pretty good in creating compact cameras before, so they just took it to another level. Pretty sucessfully I might add.

Olympus, I guess its bit true, though their dSLRs were actually good (good for 4/3s).

Sony just jumped on chance to have another thing to sell. As every selfrespecting camera company should.

And now should Canon imagine, they could have customers that would buy Canon mirrorless system instead of Olympus/Panasonic/Sony. If done properly, that could be a lot of customers.

Plus Canon is really underestimating others. Their current dSLR line simply sux. With exception to 5D MK2 and ofc 1D line.

Theres no reason to buy subpar Canon instead of Nikon D7000, Sony A55/A580 or Pentax K-5. Canon APS-C line is simply toasted. So now it would be actually very clever thing to do some decent mirrorless. With better sensor than that crap inside 600/60/7D.

If I was going to buy Canon, it would be only 5D or 1D line.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 12:49:16 PM »
"Doesn't need," does not mean, "Will not."

After all, who in their right mind would contend that Canon needed to introduce the X Mark I Calculator Mouse?  If the world needed such a dual-function device, people would dig through the boxes in their parents' attics to find the Casio calculator-watches they thought were so cool in grade school.  Nevertheless, Canon did introduce a calculator mouse, and they certainly could introduce a mirrorless camera!
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ronderick

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2011, 01:28:53 PM »
I guess the article is just another smokescreen - effectively much ado about nothing.

Aside from the pompous statements from the Canon official, you can't hold him accountable if Canon turns up with a mirrorless system ready-to-go at the end of the year, since he is "not ruling out the possibility" anyways. I won't be surprised if there's stacks of mockups somewhere in the Canon R&D labs...

Of course, if we take what he says at face value, one cannot help but wonder where Canon is placing its resources. Perhaps they're investing all R&D into going medium format *shrug*
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Rocky

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2011, 01:56:06 PM »
I agree with CR. I think Canon need to come up with TWO mirrorless camera that will complete with Leica M9 and the Fuji FX100. The first one is for pro's with the need for lens changing capablity and FF. The second one is for simplicity and smaller size with APS-C sensor.

unfocused

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2011, 02:04:55 PM »
A fairly transparent strategy.

Senior executives are instructed to get out there and defend the current product line. Message to consumers: "you don't want to buy our competitors' inferior products, even if it is a product that we don't offer. Our quality is better and our products can do anything they can do better."

This is designed to prevent consumers from jumping to a competitor or, at a minimum, reduce the bleeding.

When and if Canon introduces an EVIL system they will say: "We identified a market that was not being adequately met by our competitors. This market demanded a quality product and we are responding to it with our new product line. But, for everyone who has invested in our old product line, don't worry, it's still the best and this new product line will simply complement what we already produce."

The only real information coming out of this interview is that it's unlikely Canon will be introducing a compact camera system in the next 2-3 months. If they were planning to do so, the Executives would be told to talk about how Canon has some exciting announcements on the horizon, etc. etc. Sufficiently vague so as not to be pinned down, but specific enough to cause consumers to re-think buying another brand. The fact that they are being told to argue that existing lines are better indicates that Canon needs to buy a little time because they aren't ready to launch an EVIL system yet.

Now, as far as my wish list goes, the ideal Canon EVIL would be an interchangeable lens version of the Fuji FX100 with a small selection of wide-angle and normal primes and short zooms and then adapters to use existing canon lenses for telephoto.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 04:38:41 PM by unfocused »
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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2011, 02:04:55 PM »

traveller

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2011, 02:29:55 PM »
I think that this probably means:

"Oh sh*t we didn't realise how popular these cameras would be and now it's going to take us a while to develop our own system; better reassure people that they don't need mirrorless until we have something ready to launch." 

I don't think that this is a great move, it would be far better to vaguely state that a system is under development and that it will be compatible with EF mount lenses via an adaptor.  They could even make up some b*llsh*t about "developing game changing technologies" or suggest that they are working on an enthusiast centred range of lenses (something that NEX visibly lacks right now).  This would go a long way to persuading EOS users to hold off buying a competitor's product until they'd seen Canon's offering. 

Oh, by the way Mescalamba, there was nothing wrong with the 18MP sensor when it was first introduced in the 7D, why has it suddenly become "crap"? The fact that it has been surpassed by the excellent new 16MP Sony APS-C sensor, simply shows how quickly the world of digital imaging is still moving; would you prefer that Canon's current offering remained the pinnacle of performance forever?

WarStreet

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2011, 03:37:23 PM »
As above, for me this means that Canon lagged on this technology and they need to gain time and limit the damage.

Personally I am not interested in such mirrorless cameras offered by Sony, 4/3 etc... but A Canon version of the M9 or X100 will tempt me ;D

I think such a camera is more targeted to DSLR users who wish to compliment their cameras with a compact one. Since Canon does have lots of DSLR users, producing such a camera, translates to easy money for them, and happier clients.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 03:39:03 PM by WarStreet »

DuLt

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2011, 06:40:21 PM »
Couldn't canon release a Fuji X100 competitor as also completing their "Pro Compact Camera" line (S95 and G12)?

I'm talking about a low-light compact monster, that would expand their compact line.

S95 = very compact; G12= very adaptible; Mirrorless = low-light quality.

Ivar

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2011, 07:27:46 PM »
Hopefully not, at least what concerns Canon. There can be only mediocre outcome when Canon participates - carefully balanced products which in no way compete inside the company's other products, meaning that they are basically handicapped seriously to provide future temptation for upgrades but having one or two very high tech capabilities in order to sell.

Couldn't canon release a Fuji X100 competitor as also completing their "Pro Compact Camera" line (S95 and G12)?

I'm talking about a low-light compact monster, that would expand their compact line.

S95 = very compact; G12= very adaptible; Mirrorless = low-light quality.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 07:29:56 PM by Ivar »

DuLt

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2011, 08:28:03 PM »
Sorry, I don't understand your "hopefully not".

gkreis

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 01:15:16 AM »
Why not the following....

Create divisions in Canon with rough boundaries and let them duke it out?  That MAKES you get off your rear and innovate, instead of putting the same sensor in umpteen tweaked cameras.  Get real.  Make a GREAT camera and sell lots of it until you make another GREAT camera, even if it means taking longer.  Fixed product cycles aren't helpful if this what they produce.

If the point and shoot division and EVIL div. and APS-C div. and Full Frame div. were allowed to make GREAT improvements that might even shake things up in another division, let them (at least internally).  That means you have to come to the head of all the divisions and know you are competing with your own guys (and of course the other companies).  Then let them share what they learned with the other divisions (of course rewarding the innovators so they are fine with sharing).

So why am I wrong?

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 01:15:16 AM »

fred134

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2011, 07:21:39 AM »
"Canon will introduce a mirrorless camera"... It doesn't need to be mirrorless, it just needs to be compact.

Obviously, Canon doesn't yet know what direction to go, and doesn't want to commit too early to a new lens mount.
If they could make it compact, but with an optical viewfinder (on higher models for example), wouldn't it be nice ?

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2011, 09:24:28 AM »
Canon already makes quite a few "compact" cameras (my "rank" in this forum honors one), so I assume that what is being discussed here is an interchangeable lens camera system whose controlling dimensions are smaller than for the EOS family.

I am not personally interested in the availability of a reflex form in such a supposed new line, but if in fact Canon feels the need to be able to offer such, we might see indications of that in the choice of a larger back flange distance for the new system than we would otherwise expect (just as the Four Thirds system has a larger back flange distance than the Micro Four Thirds system, which is not considered to reasonably support a reflex configuration, as the Four Thirds system does).

Best regards,

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2011, 09:24:28 AM »