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Author Topic: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows  (Read 20956 times)

MarkWebbPhoto

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2012, 08:47:28 PM »
Shoot RAW to get the best results. Plus most people aren't going to be pixel peeping at your photos. They will just be seeing 1000 x 1000 pixels at the maximum on the internet. The 5D2 is clean enough up to ISO 1600 and the 5D3 is clean enough up to ISO 3200ish. If you tend to print extremely large images then that is another story.

I will say that I was hoping for this issue to be resolved with the 5D3 but when I tested one on a cloudy day at ISO 800, zoomed in, and saw all that noise I was immediately turned off. Canon really didn't make much of an improvement in high ISO but the images I have seen from the 1DX are a completely different story. I can't tell the difference between ISO 100 and ISO 1600 on the 1DX. Clean as can be, I'll take two please.

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2012, 08:47:28 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2012, 11:15:01 PM »
Op (Alexandros), are you kidding me?

No, you are not the only one. I guess you haven't been following the dynamic range debate lately? ;)

Canon is known for banding (pattern noise) and now also underwhelming dynamic range. The 5D line has always had banding, and it seems that Canon doesn't know how to fix it, nor how to increase low ISO DR (at least not during the last 5 years).

Nikon on the other hand, are leaping forward with the sensor in their D800. Well, they are getting their sensors from Sony, but that doesn't really matter.

Canon needs to step up.

Please post your images showing the issue.  Show your D800 images as well.  I somehow am skeptical, having both bodies.
Here is one from my 5D MK II, notice the severe banding at the left --- wait, thats just a window shade.I at ISO 51200
 
And from my D800 at ISO 6400.  Both have a ton of NR.  Very grainy, and not much more detail that the 5D MK III at ISO 51200.
 

 
 

Marsu42

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2012, 04:35:12 AM »
I somehow am skeptical, having both bodies.

For a comparison, the d800 images should be downsized to 22mp as well - it's like the Canon aps-c 18mp vs 15mp vs 12mp sensors: While more mp might have more noise at 100% crop, downsizing them gives the newer sensor an edge. So more mp are there if you need them, but there's no real disadvantage iq-wise. But of course all reviews show that the d800 is not made for shooting at iso6400+, and wedding photogs are able to stay at iso1600/iso3200 mostly anyway.

Viggo

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2012, 06:36:37 AM »
I find metering in almost all cameraes to be quite a bit under for MY taste. I like to overexpose both the 5d2 and 5d3 in "normal" light by at least one stop. It gives me VERY little noise with all NR turned off in Lr, and nothing when some applied.

Do your NR BEFORE sharpening and use the masking option to not sharpen the areas that aren't edges. And if you want an underexposed image, do it in post.
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awinphoto

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2012, 10:17:04 AM »
I find metering in almost all cameraes to be quite a bit under for MY taste. I like to overexpose both the 5d2 and 5d3 in "normal" light by at least one stop. It gives me VERY little noise with all NR turned off in Lr, and nothing when some applied.

Do your NR BEFORE sharpening and use the masking option to not sharpen the areas that aren't edges. And if you want an underexposed image, do it in post.

Or you can do what pro photographers have done for decades, get a cheap sekonic incident light meter, and you will get accurate metering for the rest of your days  =) 
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Dr. Benway

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2012, 04:37:00 PM »
Another example of 5D MKIII shadow noise.

You can see the LR metadata.

Is that shadow noise acceptable?

I will have some 8x10's printed tomorrow to see how this noise looks when printed.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 04:39:24 PM by Dr. Benway »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2012, 05:21:38 PM »
Maybe work on getting your exposure correct in camera before crying about some noise in shadows at 100% crop. If you underexpose on any camera the shadows will be filled with noise.  Why not work on your skills before whining on the forum. Bah

Even with proper exposure it's still an issue. But you do have to be extra careful with exposure with non-ISO-less cams.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 05:23:31 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2012, 05:21:38 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2012, 05:26:03 PM »
Op (Alexandros), are you kidding me?

No, you are not the only one. I guess you haven't been following the dynamic range debate lately? ;)

Canon is known for banding (pattern noise) and now also underwhelming dynamic range. The 5D line has always had banding, and it seems that Canon doesn't know how to fix it, nor how to increase low ISO DR (at least not during the last 5 years).

Nikon on the other hand, are leaping forward with the sensor in their D800. Well, they are getting their sensors from Sony, but that doesn't really matter.

Canon needs to step up.

Please post your images showing the issue.  Show your D800 images as well.  I somehow am skeptical, having both bodies.
Here is one from my 5D MK II, notice the severe banding at the left --- wait, thats just a window shade.I at ISO 51200
 
And from my D800 at ISO 6400.  Both have a ton of NR.  Very grainy, and not much more detail that the 5D MK III at ISO 51200.
 

He is talking about LOW iso only. Nobody said the 5D3 DR is worse at 6400 or 51200 or whatever.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2012, 08:45:48 PM »
I somehow am skeptical, having both bodies.

For a comparison, the d800 images should be downsized to 22mp as well - it's like the Canon aps-c 18mp vs 15mp vs 12mp sensors: While more mp might have more noise at 100% crop, downsizing them gives the newer sensor an edge. So more mp are there if you need them, but there's no real disadvantage iq-wise. But of course all reviews show that the d800 is not made for shooting at iso6400+, and wedding photogs are able to stay at iso1600/iso3200 mostly anyway.

Yes, turn my 36mp body into a 22mp body in order to make it look better.  Thats how DXO rationalizes the high per pixel noise into something usable.  Maybe if they resized it to one pixel it would be perfect.
The point is that there is no holy grail, and all the posting being done by those who just read articles and have zero experience with either camera is not very helpful.
Obviously, my D800 can take some amazing images at ISO 100 - 400, but just like the OP notes with his 5D MK III, as soon as you get into shadows and the ISO gets up over 400, you have to be more careful with exposures, and at very high ISO's, the 5D MK III has more DR than the D800.
 

SiliconVoid

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2012, 08:47:52 PM »
Most of the shadow "noise" I see people complaining about (including those in this thread) are a result of an improperly exposed shot - not a failing of the camera.

I do understand that many people today feel a modern camera should be able to take a great image (for them)... but that just isn't the case, and hopefully never will be. If you want a camera that takes average exposed images 98% of the time, zero depth of field, everything from foot to horizon in focus, etc, etc - get a p&s.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2012, 10:45:05 PM »
Most of the shadow "noise" I see people complaining about (including those in this thread) are a result of an improperly exposed shot - not a failing of the camera.

I do understand that many people today feel a modern camera should be able to take a great image (for them)... but that just isn't the case, and hopefully never will be. If you want a camera that takes average exposed images 98% of the time, zero depth of field, everything from foot to horizon in focus, etc, etc - get a p&s.
I've yet to see a P&S with zero depth of field, or even close.  P&S cameras have more depth of field, not less.  did you use this same expertise to judge others images and magically know that they were underexposed?
The two images i posted had zero adjustment to the exposure.  So much for the 98%.

briansquibb

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2012, 12:53:52 AM »
Op (Alexandros), are you kidding me?

No, you are not the only one. I guess you haven't been following the dynamic range debate lately? ;)

Canon is known for banding (pattern noise) and now also underwhelming dynamic range. The 5D line has always had banding, and it seems that Canon doesn't know how to fix it, nor how to increase low ISO DR (at least not during the last 5 years).

Nikon on the other hand, are leaping forward with the sensor in their D800. Well, they are getting their sensors from Sony, but that doesn't really matter.

Canon needs to step up.

Please post your images showing the issue.  Show your D800 images as well.  I somehow am skeptical, having both bodies.
Here is one from my 5D MK II, notice the severe banding at the left --- wait, thats just a window shade.I at ISO 51200
 
And from my D800 at ISO 6400.  Both have a ton of NR.  Very grainy, and not much more detail that the 5D MK III at ISO 51200.
 


I suspect you are the only one with the D800 and 5D3 here  8)

YellowJersey

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2012, 01:22:54 AM »
I picked up my 5D mkIII the day it was released and haven't experienced any of these problems. I shot a sunset over at the reservoir last week, so lots of shadows. At iso 100 there isn't any noise, even if I really push the shadows in post processing. I did a few at iso 500 and it had just a touch of a noise, but it was what I expected, and no bad noise in the shadows, even when pushed in post.

 Maybe I just got a good one. I also don't shoot with highlight tone priority on. *shrugs*

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2012, 01:22:54 AM »

bdunbar79

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2012, 11:04:17 AM »
Most of the shadow "noise" I see people complaining about (including those in this thread) are a result of an improperly exposed shot - not a failing of the camera.

I do understand that many people today feel a modern camera should be able to take a great image (for them)... but that just isn't the case, and hopefully never will be. If you want a camera that takes average exposed images 98% of the time, zero depth of field, everything from foot to horizon in focus, etc, etc - get a p&s.
I've yet to see a P&S with zero depth of field, or even close.  P&S cameras have more depth of field, not less.  did you use this same expertise to judge others images and magically know that they were underexposed?
The two images i posted had zero adjustment to the exposure.  So much for the 98%.

+1 million.

P&S's have more DOF, for instance, 5D Mark III DOF at f/5.6 < P&S DOF at f/5.6
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Kernuak

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2012, 03:50:37 PM »
For those having problems with shadows and underexposure, with ALO turned on, Canon have released new firmware, which fixes a problem (among others) where the camera can underexpose with ALO turned on.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/eos_5d_mark_iii_firmware_1_1_3.do?utm_source=newsletter-june-1-2012-no1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter
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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2012, 03:50:37 PM »