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Author Topic: Canon EOS-1D X Review  (Read 28553 times)

D_Rochat

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 05:24:36 PM »
People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor?  ::)

Yea, it's horrible. It's an incremental improvement over the previous 5d2 sensor. We don't get magical ability to use ISO 5 million that let's us see in the dark with hardly any noise that's easily correctable by LR4. It's hardly usable, don't find it any better than the 5d2 sensor. I mean, I can use images up to ISO 12800 for web size pretty easily. Geesh, it's horrible!

Guys, I don't recall reading any posts where the 5d3 sensor was called "horrible" or even "bad". This includes the madness of dpreview forums.  What there's been a lot of is, disappointment in the lack of improvement vs 5d2, such as banding, etc  This is an important distinction that seems "lost" on Canon fanboys.  "lack of improvement" does not equate to "bad" or "horrible".  The intensity of comments from those objectively pointing out this lack of improvement (in contrast to the D800) increased dramatically as they encountered fanboys unwilling to acknowledge these facts.  Usually the fanboys would mis-characterize the "critical" comments by using hyperbole such as "So you think the sensor sucks, go away troll!" or give the impression the poster had insane expectations such as "magical ability to use ISO 5 million" or that the poster had written the sensor was "horrible".  Ahem.

Another example: Lloyd Chambers said he found himself "bored" in regard to the 5d3 images and Canon fanboys went ballistic saying the "5D3 images are not boring!!".  Well, that's not what Lloyd said.  It was the lack of improvement that led to him having a lack of enthusiasm.  Lack of enthusiasm does not equal "bad" or "horrible".

This, all in contrast to the simple truth that the 5d3 sensor is not a significant improvement over the 5d2 and after waiting 4 (f'ing) years for the update, that's disappointing or as Lloyd put it, "boring".
I agree. I don't think that anyone thinks the 5DIII is a bad camera. But for the price, it better be mind bogglingly good, and I don't think anyone would say that is the case. I would pay 2500 in a heartbeat for the 5DIII, but at over 3000 it is just not going to happen. The 5DIII is actually just what I expected it would be, except I expected Canon to beat Nikon's price by 500 bucks, instead it's the other way around.
So, yes, for 3500 dollars the camera is a bit underwhelming(boring)

So.... How 'bout that 1d X?

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 05:24:36 PM »

Tayvin

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 05:28:57 PM »
The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.

The 5D3 and 1Dx will last me 4 years, costing about $40 per week over 4 years.

Seems reasonable to me just not to those photographing the inside of a lens cap.

I guess I just don't "get it".  "Lens cap", hmm.  I'm very predominantly a studio shooter ie, portraiture, fashion, beauty.  Been trying out a D800.  Just did an editorial Marie Claire shoot that included some "low key" lighting. Being able to shoot at high IQ, low iso and lift those shadows as I wished without needing NR that smears details like peanut butter is extremely valuable.  My subject's skin would have turned to blurry mush!  Images reminded me a great deal of my shoots with a rented Phase One IQ140 ($30k kit).  I can think how vastly more important this ability would be to landscape shooters as well as concert and other low light shooters.  Shooting at high iso cannot compete in terms of IQ.


jaduffy, will you put up a link to some of the images you've shot with the D800?  I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything; I just want to see some images that were properly lit with this camera.  I'm still waiting on my 800e.  Thanks!

And back to the topic at hand - I thought the 1ds III was Canon's flagship DSLR???

Bombsight

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 05:45:54 PM »
I cant understand why so many 5DMK3 owners are saying  ... "I'm glad", "It does", "It doesn't", "Cant do", "Can do", blah, blah, blah ... ON ALL OF THE 1DX THREADS!  ??? ::)

WE GET IT! ... you payed less for less of a camera!

Be happy & go use it.

Quit spending time counting your $$$ in front of those who spent more for what they wanted!!!!!!

Jeeeeez us!  ::)

jaduffy007

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 05:51:24 PM »
The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.

The 5D3 and 1Dx will last me 4 years, costing about $40 per week over 4 years.

Seems reasonable to me just not to those photographing the inside of a lens cap.

I guess I just don't "get it".  "Lens cap", hmm.  I'm very predominantly a studio shooter ie, portraiture, fashion, beauty.  Been trying out a D800.  Just did an editorial Marie Claire shoot that included some "low key" lighting. Being able to shoot at high IQ, low iso and lift those shadows as I wished without needing NR that smears details like peanut butter is extremely valuable.  My subject's skin would have turned to blurry mush!  Images reminded me a great deal of my shoots with a rented Phase One IQ140 ($30k kit).  I can think how vastly more important this ability would be to landscape shooters as well as concert and other low light shooters.  Shooting at high iso cannot compete in terms of IQ.


jaduffy, will you put up a link to some of the images you've shot with the D800?  I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything; I just want to see some images that were properly lit with this camera.  I'm still waiting on my 800e.  Thanks!

And back to the topic at hand - I thought the 1ds III was Canon's flagship DSLR???

Well Tayvin, as massively outdated as my website is, and i mean seriously neglected! ...just last night I did put up a few new shots from the shoot I was referring to in my post.  Website link below. D800 images: The opening image of the site, the B&W of Jaimie Alexander (Thor, etc).  Then I believe there are a few shots of Jaimie in the beauty and editorial sections.  All shot with the d800 with the 85 f1.8G, Zeiss 100 f2  or
200 f2. Any shots of Jaimie are with D800.

The images are retouched, but with the exception of Jaimie's back in the B&W, you would be shocked how little retouching was required. Seriously.  She has phenomenal skin and we had a great MUA, Jeffrey Paul.

Whether they are "properly lit" is a matter of opinion. :)  And please keep in mind, you're looking at 500kb jpegs!

jamesallenduffy.com

If you have any further questions, you can email me via the website info.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 07:05:44 PM by jaduffy007 »

jaduffy007

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 05:53:26 PM »
People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor?  ::)

Yea, it's horrible. It's an incremental improvement over the previous 5d2 sensor. We don't get magical ability to use ISO 5 million that let's us see in the dark with hardly any noise that's easily correctable by LR4. It's hardly usable, don't find it any better than the 5d2 sensor. I mean, I can use images up to ISO 12800 for web size pretty easily. Geesh, it's horrible!

Guys, I don't recall reading any posts where the 5d3 sensor was called "horrible" or even "bad". This includes the madness of dpreview forums.  What there's been a lot of is, disappointment in the lack of improvement vs 5d2, such as banding, etc  This is an important distinction that seems "lost" on Canon fanboys.  "lack of improvement" does not equate to "bad" or "horrible".  The intensity of comments from those objectively pointing out this lack of improvement (in contrast to the D800) increased dramatically as they encountered fanboys unwilling to acknowledge these facts.  Usually the fanboys would mis-characterize the "critical" comments by using hyperbole such as "So you think the sensor sucks, go away troll!" or give the impression the poster had insane expectations such as "magical ability to use ISO 5 million" or that the poster had written the sensor was "horrible".  Ahem.

Another example: Lloyd Chambers said he found himself "bored" in regard to the 5d3 images and Canon fanboys went ballistic saying the "5D3 images are not boring!!".  Well, that's not what Lloyd said.  It was the lack of improvement that led to him having a lack of enthusiasm.  Lack of enthusiasm does not equal "bad" or "horrible".

This, all in contrast to the simple truth that the 5d3 sensor is not a significant improvement over the 5d2 and after waiting 4 (f'ing) years for the update, that's disappointing or as Lloyd put it, "boring".
I agree. I don't think that anyone thinks the 5DIII is a bad camera. But for the price, it better be mind bogglingly good, and I don't think anyone would say that is the case. I would pay 2500 in a heartbeat for the 5DIII, but at over 3000 it is just not going to happen. The 5DIII is actually just what I expected it would be, except I expected Canon to beat Nikon's price by 500 bucks, instead it's the other way around.
So, yes, for 3500 dollars the camera is a bit underwhelming(boring)

So.... How 'bout that 1d X?

I apologize!  I"ll shut up now. :)

gary samples

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 06:00:02 PM »
there just trying to make them selfs feel better for not hav'n our not willing to put out the money !!

  can hardy wait for 1dx come to papa .

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 06:02:17 PM »
The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.

Actually the D800 not only has a lot more resolution but the quality of those pixels are better, clean shadows, etc.  Medium format digital dynamic range too.   Qualities I have paid 10's of 1000's of dollars for, now in a $3000 body. In contrast canon is milking its loyal base.

"Everything else much better", such as?  I don't know about you, but resolution, DR are pretty much top of my list of priorities. I'm going to resist rehashing this tired old argument in detail, but I can't think of anything the 5d3 does "much better". And just to be clear, I'm not saying the 5d3 is a bad camera, just over priced relative to competing products.

I'm not suggesting it's worth switching sides over ...yet...but that point is within sight.  I dont think it serves us to embrace an "ignorance is bliss" mentality, pretending the advantages of the D800 are not highly desirable.   8)

I understood that the noise advantage of the D800 disappeared by ISO 800? and similarly the DR?

Both cameras are very good I am sure - but surely they are so far apart in their potential user base that real comparison between is down to personal preference.

The 1DX should be IMO be compared with the D4.

I will be interested in reviews of the 1DX as it is the planned replacement for my 7D
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 06:08:51 PM by briansquibb »

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 06:02:17 PM »

Philco

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 06:08:13 PM »
I'm really pleased to see how well the 5DIII compares to the Flagship model 1DX. Everyone is complaining about the cost of a the 5DIII, (with a grip and sales tax here in CA came to $4200) but considering how close it got me to a 1DX w/out the added expense for features I won't utilize, I'm happy; especially now that I've enjoyed how well the 5DIII handles on a couple of jobs. I couldn't make a business case to upgrade, as the pair of 5DII's I'd used for a while had been getting the job done, and it's not as if my clients will offer to pay me one penny more to use a newer body (let alone a 1DX).  All in all, I would think it would be tougher to holding a recent 1DsIII and figure out what to do....

Supposedly the advantage to the new bodies is full functionality of the new 600 EX RT's, though in my experience I haven't noticed a practical difference between using them off-camera with the master on the 5DII or III.

I agree that the 5DIII is engineered for photographers that make money with their gear, but no one said they aren't also marketed to all photographers. I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it. I think you are more likely to see well-heeled hobbyists sporting a Leica if they're shopping for a status symbol as much as a camera.

Philco

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 06:10:59 PM »
I cant understand why so many 5DMK3 owners are saying  ... "I'm glad", "It does", "It doesn't", "Cant do", "Can do", blah, blah, blah ... ON ALL OF THE 1DX THREADS!  ??? ::)

WE GET IT! ... you payed less for less of a camera!

Be happy & go use it.

Quit spending time counting your $$$ in front of those who spent more for what they wanted!!!!!!

Jeeeeez us!  ::)

The review of the 1DX includes direct comparisons between both cameras. That's WHY.

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 06:16:43 PM »
I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it.

Nice to meet you Philco, I am a hobbyist with several 1 series and I dont make any money from them


jaduffy007

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2012, 06:22:55 PM »
The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.

Actually the D800 not only has a lot more resolution but the quality of those pixels are better, clean shadows, etc.  Medium format digital dynamic range too.   Qualities I have paid 10's of 1000's of dollars for, now in a $3000 body. In contrast canon is milking its loyal base.

"Everything else much better", such as?  I don't know about you, but resolution, DR are pretty much top of my list of priorities. I'm going to resist rehashing this tired old argument in detail, but I can't think of anything the 5d3 does "much better". And just to be clear, I'm not saying the 5d3 is a bad camera, just over priced relative to competing products.

I'm not suggesting it's worth switching sides over ...yet...but that point is within sight.  I dont think it serves us to embrace an "ignorance is bliss" mentality, pretending the advantages of the D800 are not highly desirable.   8)

I understood that the noise advantage of the D800 disappeared by ISO 800? and similarly the DR?

While true to a very significant degree, those same advantages disappear even faster and more severely on the Phase One $48,000 IQ180 kit. :)

You're right but the d800 doesn't fall off a performance cliff until iso6400, especially true with downsizing.  So unless someone shoots predominantly at 3200 and higher, why sacrifice the significant advantages from iso100 to 800??
Topaz Denoise and downsizing to 16mp creates miracles. ;)

I really want to stop high jacking this thread, but I didn't start it !!!  :)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 06:29:15 PM by jaduffy007 »

Philco

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2012, 06:23:49 PM »
That's great Brian. Since I've met and worked with a lot of other full time photographers, it makes sense I wouldn't know anyone that would pony up for a 1 series outside of that circle. The guy who used to valet in at my building had a 1DII a couple of years ago, but he was a working pro overseas before coming here, so he still counts. In my point I was responding to the idea that photographers would buy a 1 series to shoot their cats (sarcastically) and I agree that it's not a hobbyist camera. The people I've met who approached buying a camera to tote around like buying a watch, bought Leicas. I'm sure their cat photos are very nice.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 06:39:43 PM by Philco »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2012, 06:26:51 PM »
And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage. Likely this will at least pair it with the D4 in performance.

This isn't the difference 4MP less makes, this is a new sensor design.

He is saying RAW. It actually looks like a solid 2/3 stop better than 5D3 at high ISO, insane! That has got to beat the D4 and make the 1DX be the best lowlight DSLR in history (and I'm not honestly sure it could be ever beaten, at least not with a standard CMOS sensor + Bayer CFA).


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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2012, 06:26:51 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2012, 06:29:39 PM »
Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

Of course we still have no clue how it does at low ISO. I still tend to bet the D800 will cream it there. Perhaps, if we are lucky, it can match the D4 ISO100 DR and banding though???

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »
That's great Brian. Did you buy a 1DX yet?

I dont want to be an early user so I am happy to wait. I have a 1D4 so its not urgent.

My 1DS3 is limited in low light so I thought the 1DX might do duties there as well.

The 1DS3 will stay top dog for iso 50-200 shots (which are about 50% of my photos) until there is a clear improvement coming along. I had 5D2 and did side by side testing and the 5D2 was clearly worse than the 1DS3.

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Review
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »