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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]  (Read 34494 times)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2012, 09:44:22 AM »
Quote
More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera? Its unlikely  enthusiasts are going about printing bigger than A3. Stop with the megapixels and put the R&D into better noise and DR not trying to cram more photosites on when its not needed.

Ever so right.  :) 18MP is enoug for prosumers. Better ISO, IQ and DR is far more important.  8

Except that Sony and Nikon already offer more megapixels for the prosumer in equivalent bodies.

Heck, the Nikon D3200 has 24MP and is on a par with the 5D Mark II in terms of IQ.

So there's Canon's challenge: deliver a crop camera with IQ equal to that of the 5D Mark II.
Any reviews of the D3200 yet?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2012, 09:44:22 AM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2012, 09:45:55 AM »
More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera?

Useful for cropping when I'm focal-length or magnification limited.

If more pixels weren't useful for this, teleconverters would also be useless, and they are not.  Even our old optics can do well with a 2x TC on an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor, thus indicating that sensor could go to 72MP and still provide benefit even to an old zoom lens (100-400L).

100-400L + 2x on T2i:
http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

AprilForever

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2012, 09:51:58 AM »
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<strong>The prosumer market up next?<br />


</strong>Now that Canon has addressed the “professional” space with the 5D Mark III, 1D X & 1D C (Yes, I know some want the big megapixel camera), it could be time to turn our attention to the “prosumer” space. We keep hearing bits of information about what’s planned for the segment in the coming months.</p>
<p><strong>The 70D</strong><br />


The latest I have heard, and spoken about before, is that we’ll see the 70D move up the line. It’ll be specced close to the current 7D, however with a new higher megapixel APS-C sensor.</p>
<p><strong>The 7D X</strong><br />


The rumor that won’t go away is that the APS-H sensor will return to the Canon lineup and fit between the 70D and 5D Mark III. Is it really possible? Maybe. I don’t think Canon needs more APS-C cameras beyond the Rebel, a 70D and possibly a mirrorless entry.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>


I may have to smite you for that line about the APS-C 7D... Oh, wait, we can't smite each other! Now, I must attempt to resort to logic, or at least emotion and rhetoric.  ;D :'( :o 8)

On a serious note, I REALLY want the 7D mk II to be APS-C. If it bloats to APS-H, I will be enraged, though my wrath would be mitigated if they bumped the MP up to around 24ish, to stave off the effects of the lost distance...

Stone writes  APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

Exactamundo. Now, let us be rid once and for all of the mad thoughts of bloating the 7D sensor.
What is truth?

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2012, 09:54:46 AM »
Stone writes  APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.


The 1D4 is better than the 5DII so perhaps far better is an overstatement?

Dylan777

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2012, 10:10:30 AM »
APS-H Sensor for 7D X???....wow this must be a dream  ;D
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2012, 10:20:49 AM »
First shows 8-15 and the height of the dome and how close the top ot the hood is in height . The filter would be about the same height

Second shows the image at 8mm, clearly show a lot of the inside of the hood - that is where the light would come from. Put a mount there and the visual image would be blinkered

I am guessing a 200mm square filter would be needed

The answer was already provided...

...needed a custom solution for the light leakage...

So, a barrel-mounted or Plamp type holder for a custom fabricated convex glass filter.  Should only set you back a few thousand $/£/€...  Oh, and while your at it, have someone grind down that hood on the 8-15mm fisheye...

 ::) :P :-X
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2012, 10:33:13 AM »

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

We are looking at lifting the internals of the 1D4 and putting them in 5DIII body

16 mps, 10fps, good high iso, good IQ, 1.3 reach, good AF, f/8 AF, metering on AF point etc. This would make a good upgrade for the 7D - I know, I did the 7D to 1D4 upgrade. We know the APS-H is proven at higher mps so upgrades there can be anticipated

APS-C does not match APS-H in anyway and will probably end up in Csc, EVILs etc at the lower end. This trend has already been started by other manufacturers eg NX20. That means that APS-H will become the new entry level sensor.

Look forward to it - APS-H as entry level is mind blowing.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2012, 10:33:13 AM »

RLPhoto

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2012, 10:34:33 AM »

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

We are looking at lifting the internals of the 1D4 and putting them in 5DIII body

16 mps, 10fps, good high iso, good IQ, 1.3 reach, good AF, f/8 AF, metering on AF point etc. This would make a good upgrade for the 7D - I know, I did the 7D to 1D4 upgrade. We know the APS-H is proven at higher mps so upgrades there can be anticipated

APS-C does not match APS-H in anyway and will probably end up in Csc, EVILs etc at the lower end. This trend has already been started by other manufacturers eg NX20. That means that APS-H will become the new entry level sensor.

Look forward to it - APS-H as entry level is mind blowing.

FF>>>APS-H>>>APS-C  8)

maxxevv

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2012, 11:03:42 AM »
Here you are then

First shows 8-15 and the height of the dome and how close the top ot the hood is in height . The filter would be about the same height

Second shows the image at 8mm, clearly show a lot of the inside of the hood - that is where the light would come from. Put a mount there and the visual image would be blinkered

I am guessing a 200mm square filter would be needed - perhaps off a MF

I have no need of a filter so haven't persued it any further

Good grief ... in the context of APS-C and APS-H ...  I really thought you were talking about the Sigma 8-16mm  !  :o

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/8-16mm-f45-56-dc-hsm-sigma

Which really is the basis of what I was talking about on 'equivalent FOV' .... 

BXL

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »
The only reason I could see Canon getting serious about a successor to the 7D is if Nikon bring out a D400 that beats whatever the 70D has to offer in a way that requires a new camera from Canon.
Well... Nikon's counterpart of the 70D would be the rumored D7100.

Quote
If the rumor is true 7D2 will be a market killer and no need for a entry lvl FF body.
It would cannibalize the sales of the 1D X, thus I don't believe that this rumor comes true.

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briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2012, 01:07:06 PM »
...
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
...

NO!

APS-H was made because Canon could not produce a full frame sensor cost effectively at the time the 1D series cameras were being designed and delivered.

APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H camerassuch as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

nicku

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2012, 01:13:36 PM »
Stone writes  APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
Because  will be a unique camera on the market without a direct competitor and because the IQ and extra reach (1.3 crop)

The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?

The technology and knowhow to produce APS-H allready exists, Considering the actual 7D sales definitely worth investing.

 the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.

The IQ of the 7D2 (if the rumor is true) wil definitely not canibalize the 1Dx because the IQ. the APS-H sensor will have a lower IQ, lower fps, AF etc...

 the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.

They aiming to the budget semipro wildlife/sports photographers and to 1Dx users (as a Backup camera).




« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:17:55 PM by nicku »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2012, 03:01:41 PM »
PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C)  has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???



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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2012, 03:01:41 PM »

Rockets95

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2012, 04:00:59 PM »
I know I am showing my ignorance, but I'll ask anyway. APS-H (1.3) - Would it support EF-S? I would assume not! I only own one (10-22mm).

It can work from about 14~15mm onwards supposedly. (Someone tried with a 1DMkIII some time ago, maybe you can try a search on it ..)

But if such a camera does come about, i would be in Canon's best interest to have a crop-compatibility mode that toggles between 1.6x and 1.3x crop. This would be a great way to make everyone happy ... and ensure that it becomes a great selling camera !   ;D

Isn't that what Nikon does?
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dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2012, 04:55:17 PM »
APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H cameras such as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

dude nice history.  so Kodak is out of the picture now entirely since 2001, and Canon fully owns and produces their own sensors?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2012, 04:55:17 PM »