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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]  (Read 21831 times)

dilbert

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2012, 11:39:13 AM »
...
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
...

NO!

APS-H was made because Canon could not produce a full frame sensor cost effectively at the time the 1D series cameras were being designed and delivered.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2012, 11:39:13 AM »

BXL

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »
The only reason I could see Canon getting serious about a successor to the 7D is if Nikon bring out a D400 that beats whatever the 70D has to offer in a way that requires a new camera from Canon.
Well... Nikon's counterpart of the 70D would be the rumored D7100.

Quote
If the rumor is true 7D2 will be a market killer and no need for a entry lvl FF body.
It would cannibalize the sales of the 1D X, thus I don't believe that this rumor comes true.

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briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2012, 01:07:06 PM »
...
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
...

NO!

APS-H was made because Canon could not produce a full frame sensor cost effectively at the time the 1D series cameras were being designed and delivered.

APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H camerassuch as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

nicku

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2012, 01:13:36 PM »
Stone writes  APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
Because  will be a unique camera on the market without a direct competitor and because the IQ and extra reach (1.3 crop)

The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?

The technology and knowhow to produce APS-H allready exists, Considering the actual 7D sales definitely worth investing.

 the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.

The IQ of the 7D2 (if the rumor is true) wil definitely not canibalize the 1Dx because the IQ. the APS-H sensor will have a lower IQ, lower fps, AF etc...

 the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.

They aiming to the budget semipro wildlife/sports photographers and to 1Dx users (as a Backup camera).




« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:17:55 PM by nicku »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2012, 03:01:41 PM »
PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C)  has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???



Rockets95

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2012, 04:00:59 PM »
I know I am showing my ignorance, but I'll ask anyway. APS-H (1.3) - Would it support EF-S? I would assume not! I only own one (10-22mm).

It can work from about 14~15mm onwards supposedly. (Someone tried with a 1DMkIII some time ago, maybe you can try a search on it ..)

But if such a camera does come about, i would be in Canon's best interest to have a crop-compatibility mode that toggles between 1.6x and 1.3x crop. This would be a great way to make everyone happy ... and ensure that it becomes a great selling camera !   ;D

Isn't that what Nikon does?
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dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2012, 04:55:17 PM »
APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H cameras such as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

dude nice history.  so Kodak is out of the picture now entirely since 2001, and Canon fully owns and produces their own sensors?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2012, 04:55:17 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2012, 08:17:20 PM »
APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H cameras such as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

dude nice history.  so Kodak is out of the picture now entirely since 2001, and Canon fully owns and produces their own sensors?

Yes

It is also worth noting that the Sony and Nikon APS-C are 1.5 crop so are larger than the Canon sensors

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2012, 10:12:33 PM »
PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C)  has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???

Canon has a much larger (and growing) dSLR market share, compared to Nikon. So...WTF is wrong with Canon???  Nothing.  Rather, WTF is wrong with Nikon?!?

Just giving you the shareholder perspective, which for a publicly-held company is the most important consideration.
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maxxevv

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2012, 10:22:00 PM »
PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C)  has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???

You read these specs from Nikon too literally.

Have you ever actually compared these Nikon cameras side by side for their so called 'pro grade' AF and metering??  Go do that with the same glass side by side ... You will be "amazed" by the differences... 


Gcon

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2012, 10:50:46 PM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

APS-H is D.E.A.D. It was only there for faster frame rates compared to FF. It was a compromise. Canon solved this with the 1DX. The whole point of a crop-sensor lens in a semi-pro body like 7D is just that - the crop factor! Otherwise you'd just get the 5DIII. My left nut to say that APS-H will never ever see the light of day ever again in a new body - it makes absolutely zero sense.

I was initially thinking that 60D and 7D would merge. I've changed my mind. The price gap would be too great going from Rebel/650D to 7D. That middle ground needs to be filled to stave off competition from the impressive Nikon D7000. Canon won't give up that fight.

There will be a 70D and 7DII. Both will be 24MP. There will be enough feature differences to justify the price diff - weather sealing, frame rate (dual digic vs single), AF points, magnesium body.

The Canon no-frills full frame camera - this one is hard to predict! They need to be competitive with Nikon yet not Canibalise 5DIII sales the way the 5DII cannibalised 1Ds sales several years ago. I definitely think is coming though - the 5DII is dated and won't work with new accessories. It needs a direct replacement at that price point. Will it be a megapixel monster? I doubt it but we shall see.

maxxevv

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2012, 11:52:30 PM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.



What if it could and was 1.3X crop as well ??

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2012, 12:14:22 AM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.



What if it could and was 1.3X crop as well ??

or even the APS-C update, the 70D, will of course take the EF-S lens

To ease the update path into FF a cheap 1.3 crop option will be provided complete with a series of cheaper lens such as the 40 f/2.8.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2012, 12:14:22 AM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2012, 01:33:39 AM »
You read these specs from Nikon too literally.

Have you ever actually compared these Nikon cameras side by side for their so called 'pro grade' AF and metering??  Go do that with the same glass side by side ... You will be "amazed" by the differences...

Yes I have. I know fellow pros who use Nikon DSLRs, and I've played with them. I now own a Nikon F100 FFFilm (Full-Frame-Film) camera, and I prefer the metering and focus to my Canon cameras. I've used a 5D3, and it's a great camera, but I think that I've already bought my last Canon DSLR. I'll be replacing my DSLRs at the end of the year. What is announced at Photokina will help me make my decision, stick with Canon or go with Nikon or maybe Sony. Or perhaps buying Mu43, and renting MFD when I need the higher pixel count. Decisions, decisions ... :)

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2012, 01:47:11 AM »

Just giving you the shareholder perspective, which for a publicly-held company is the most important consideration.

Let me re-word it. Prosumer is just a cynical marketing ploy to enrich Canon shareholders. This cynical ploy isn't used by Nikon, another publicly traded company. ;) Maybe Nikon shareholders are already rich enough ;)  ;)

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2012, 01:47:11 AM »