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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]  (Read 34393 times)

canonrumorstony

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2012, 02:08:05 AM »
The only reason
It would cannibalize the sales of the 1D X, thus I don't believe that this rumor comes true.

It most certainly would not because it would be nowhere near the price of the 1DX.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2012, 02:08:05 AM »

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2012, 07:06:05 PM »
the APS-H sensor is an advantage canon has to be able to combat the oposition sensor advantage
I am certain a 22 MP APS-H sensor will deliver better IQ accross the board than the sony 24MP sensor
sure the shadow areas are still going suffer canonitis but lets be realistic its probably 1% of camera users are probably even aware of this being an issue with canon sensors vs nikon

a 22MP APS-H will allow for a 14MP APS-C crop mode

so lets assume they use a single Digic 5+ and the 22MP APS-H delivers 6 FPS as per the 5Dmk3
however in APS-C mode that would equate to about 9.5 FPS for processing the same amount of data
maybe with the grip this might be able to be bumped up to 10 FPS (not sure)
crop mode being a selection you can make regardless of EF or EF-S lens not just lens specific so people can get the FPS boost with big whites, and obviously 14MP files in crop mode would give you a much deeper burst buffer for extended periods of action too

add in the gaples microlenses and the high iso improvements use the 5Dmk3 body, bolt the 1Dmk4 AF system in as is dont put the 61pt system in since the f8 AF of this system will guarantee its a winner no R&D here its good to go.

try keep the price closer to $2000 say $2200 would be smart to try and be competative (but realistically with canons pricing it could be $2500 or even $3000 depending what they are smoking when they decide on the price)

I dont think there would be a sports / wildlife shooter that would pass up something like this
APS-H Fanboy

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2012, 01:21:58 AM »
More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera?

Useful for cropping when I'm focal-length or magnification limited.

If more pixels weren't useful for this, teleconverters would also be useless, and they are not.  Even our old optics can do well with a 2x TC on an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor, thus indicating that sensor could go to 72MP and still provide benefit even to an old zoom lens (100-400L).

100-400L + 2x on T2i:
http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

That's like saying I'm shooting birds with a wide angle and need the extra pixels for cropping. Not really the right tools for the job.

There are wildlife situations that meet the objective above, namely FOV limited because you cannot get any closer, or buy longer glass,  in which case a higher pixel density crop sensor will outperform a larger sensor of the same generation, cropped in post to obtain the same FOV. 

nicku

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2012, 01:22:40 AM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

APS-H is D.E.A.D. It was only there for faster frame rates compared to FF. It was a compromise. Canon solved this with the 1DX. The whole point of a crop-sensor lens in a semi-pro body like 7D is just that - the crop factor! Otherwise you'd just get the 5DIII. My left nut to say that APS-H will never ever see the light of day ever again in a new body - it makes absolutely zero sense.



You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The APS-H sensor have no direct competitor

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2012, 01:46:52 AM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

APS-H is D.E.A.D. It was only there for faster frame rates compared to FF. It was a compromise. Canon solved this with the 1DX. The whole point of a crop-sensor lens in a semi-pro body like 7D is just that - the crop factor! Otherwise you'd just get the 5DIII. My left nut to say that APS-H will never ever see the light of day ever again in a new body - it makes absolutely zero sense.



You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The APS-H sensor have no direct competitor

yes. Canon's wildcard, so to speak.  1.3 could be dead, but if it is, it won't be because of the reasons stated.  It will be because the cost versus the compromise between reach and IQ is not in Canon's best interest. 

Also -- the point of a "crop sensor lens" is not (by itself) the crop factor,  it is the cost - APS-C lenses are cheaper to produce.

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2012, 01:55:52 AM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.



What if it could and was 1.3X crop as well ??

oh boy a 10-22 on a APS-H  body would be cool --  but I doubt that Canon would produce a 1.3x body that could accept today's EF-S lenses.  Clever engineering aside, such a body would utilize more of the image circle than these lenses were designed for, so the optical performance would likely be lackluster.  more vignetting, edges not so sharp...  :(

x-vision

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2012, 01:57:04 AM »
APS-H is D.E.A.D.

You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The marketing perspective is that  APS-H cannot command the same price as FF.
For example, which of these two cameras would you rather buy:
  • 5DIII: $3500
  • 5DIII-SP (SP=sports), with 16mp 1.3x sensor and 8fps: again, $3500

So, would you pay $3500 for the 5DIII-SP?

If you feel that the 1.3x version should cost less, you know the answer why Canon will never make it  8).

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2012, 01:57:04 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2012, 02:13:10 AM »
APS-H is D.E.A.D.

You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The marketing perspective is that  APS-H cannot command the same price as FF.
For example, which of these two cameras would you rather buy:
  • 5DIII: $3500
  • 5DIII-SP (SP=sports), with 16mp 1.3x sensor and 8fps: again, $3500

So, would you pay $3500 for the 5DIII-SP?

If you feel that the 1.3x version should cost less, you know the answer why Canon will never make it  8).

I would guess, that if it came in at 5DIII price (and why not - the 1D4 is not much more than the 5DIII) then there would be 2 distinct models, sport and portrait. Rather similar to the 5DII/7D paring which earnt Canon a pile of cash

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2012, 02:19:36 AM »
APS-H is D.E.A.D.

You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The marketing perspective is that  APS-H cannot command the same price as FF.
For example, which of these two cameras would you rather buy:
  • 5DIII: $3500
  • 5DIII-SP (SP=sports), with 16mp 1.3x sensor and 8fps: again, $3500

So, would you pay $3500 for the 5DIII-SP?

If you feel that the 1.3x version should cost less, you know the answer why Canon will never make it  8).
Yes, if it had the 1Dmk4 AF including f8 capability, it would flat out wipe the floor with any APS-C in IQ terms
i'm assuming you are basing the 8FPS on an extrapolation of the DIGIC 5+ processing power to deliver 6FPS for the 22MP FF 5Dmk3. while the new AF system is nice and all this camera would benefit significantly more by keeping the robust AF of the 1D4 and giving people the f8 functionality back.

however I like my idea better of a 22MP APS-H sensor with 14MP crop mode delivering 6FPS and 10FPS respectively
APS-H Fanboy

MYB

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2012, 04:16:40 AM »
Hi,
I think Canon needs a compact APS-H ( 5D body ) whatever it calls 7DII or something else. Bigger sensor gives better IQ and still have a bit reach for outdoor and if Canon keeps the f/8 AF advantage for using teleconverter, it satisfies a lot people.
Yes we can't use EF-S lenses on APS-H ( and comes out an ultra wide angle problem ) but it's Canons problem not mine. I can buy a Sigma DC or Tamron Di II. These lenses are causes only a bit vignette at the corners. But it's not bad at all. And if you don't want it you can crop the photo ( to 1.5, 1.6 ) when you will use it.
For example, if Canon makes a 22 MP APS-H and i have a Sigma 10-20mm DC. When i crop it to 1.5 still i have a 15mm 16MP photo ( x1.6 ~ 14MP ). I think 16MP is enough for most of people. Maybe Canon makes a crop mode.
Of course i'm not a professional and these are my opinions.

(I am not good at English. If i said something wrong, apologies).

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: July 02, 2012, 07:30:50 AM »
There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

APS-H is D.E.A.D. It was only there for faster frame rates compared to FF. It was a compromise. Canon solved this with the 1DX. The whole point of a crop-sensor lens in a semi-pro body like 7D is just that - the crop factor! Otherwise you'd just get the 5DIII. My left nut to say that APS-H will never ever see the light of day ever again in a new body - it makes absolutely zero sense.





You forget one very important aspect of the whole picture: The marketing perspective

The APS-H sensor have no direct competitor

Do you ever recall seeing the 1D cameras advertising mentioning that it was APS-H or that it was a 1.3 crop and not a 1.6 or 1.0 crop?

Yes  it has been in most of the brochures

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: July 02, 2012, 07:59:28 PM »
there are a couple of amusing outcomes

1.  If there is no APS-H body announced, I observe that the 1.3x fans will be a mite disappointed but largely accepting of the decision, while they figure out Canon's strategy re:  reach versus IQ and how it applies to them.  Meanwhile,  the "APS-H is dead" crowd will do the snoopy dance and say I told you so

2.  If there is an APS-H body announced, the 1.3x fans will do the snoopy dance and say I told you so, but the "APS-H is dead" crowd will have to seek therapy

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: July 02, 2012, 08:04:25 PM »
there are a couple of amusing outcomes

1.  If there is no APS-H body announced, I observe that the 1.3x fans will be a mite disappointed but largely accepting of the decision, while they figure out Canon's strategy re:  reach versus IQ and how it applies to them.  Meanwhile,  the "APS-H is dead" crowd will do the snoopy dance and say I told you so

2.  If there is an APS-H body announced, the 1.3x fans will do the snoopy dance and say I told you so, but the "APS-H is dead" crowd will have to seek therapy

ROFL Nice summary, for me personally I would also just get a 1Dmk4 and live with the bulky body :P
unfortunately they are to cumbersome to do the snoopy dance with though
APS-H Fanboy

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: July 02, 2012, 08:04:25 PM »

Eimajm

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: July 04, 2012, 03:42:14 PM »
More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera?

Useful for cropping when I'm focal-length or magnification limited.

If more pixels weren't useful for this, teleconverters would also be useless, and they are not.  Even our old optics can do well with a 2x TC on an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor, thus indicating that sensor could go to 72MP and still provide benefit even to an old zoom lens (100-400L).

100-400L + 2x on T2i:
http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

That's like saying I'm shooting birds with a wide angle and need the extra pixels for cropping. Not really the right tools for the job.

I routinely need a zoom lens for shooting at long focal lengths because I'm shooting aircraft and they move quickly.  They move so quickly that handholding is required.  How many handholdable fast autofocus zoom lenses does Canon make longer than 400mm?  It's common for me to crop to 800-1200mm equivalent focal length, and those extra pixels are a big help.

Now, if Canon wants to make a nice, affordable, handholdable 100-1200 f/4-f/5.6, I'm all for it but I don't think that will happen any time in the foreseeable future as we don't even have materials that could meet those specs.

Well you are shooting at the same field of  view of pros I follow who shoot FF with 600s they crop minor for composition. Perhaps you need to improve your technique rather than 'need' more pixels. Shooting planes miles in the sky and cropping to way over 50% of the image is never going to give quality no matter how many pixels you have.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: July 04, 2012, 03:42:14 PM »