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Author Topic: FF advise (mainly stills)  (Read 8423 times)

mathino

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FF advise (mainly stills)
« on: July 01, 2012, 04:26:50 PM »
Hi all,

I'm currently 450D owner and I think that after 4 years it's time to upgrade. I'm mainly shooting portraits / street / gigs / DJs / low light / strobist.

My current gear ready for FF:
I already have 3 primes: EF 28 f/1.8 USM, EF 40 f/2.8 STM and 85 /f1.8 USM. Flash: 430EX II and triggers Cactus V4 and Pixel Kings for TTL. I also have Vivitar 285HV.

My friends can borrow me EF 70-200 f/2.8 L IS USM, EF 70-200 f/4 L USM and EF 24-70 f/2.8 L USM - so zoom is not a problem when needed.

My options:
1.) buy 5D classic - I've read a lot of posts here and there - it has a really good reputation in terms of color and image quality even nowdays. AF is old but 5D Mk II has the same so no difference - when I need I just attach 430EX II for AF assist. Really important question is: how it is at ISO 1600 and 3200 ? I'm using my 450D at 1600 and do some post to correct noise with good results. I'm fine with 12 Mpx. Also used price is around 600 Euro.

2.) buy 5D Mk II - I'm sure it's a great camera. I've shot with it on one Canon event and was pleased even with photos at ISO 3200 and ocasionally at 6400 (always depends on actual situation). I know what this cam is capable of in terms of both stills and video. AFMA is a great feature becasue I'm a prime shooter. AF same as 5D as I mentioned before. There is also a possibility to hook it with Magic Lantern. As I've said before I'm fine with 12 Mpx.

3.) buy 5D and rent 5D Mk II when needed - until 5D Mk III price drops to affordable level...or some lower specd FF body will be announced.

My preferences and question for you:
I really want to upgrade straight to 5D Mk III, but the price is ridicolous (at least now). It has all I need/want from camera. I also want to keep the new cam for at least another 4 years (so I think that buying 5D Mk II is not so wise decision - reason is obvious = price). So what I'm really looking for now is your suggestion for the best temporary setup. What do you think ?

Thanks in advance  :)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 04:28:43 PM by mathino »
6D (on the way) | 450D | EF 28 f/1.8 USM | EF 40 f/2.8 STM | EF 85 f/1.8 USM | 430 EX II | wishlist: EF 24-70 f/2.8 L II USM, EF 135 f/2 L

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FF advise (mainly stills)
« on: July 01, 2012, 04:26:50 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 04:43:41 PM »
5D Mark II is a great choice over the 5D for ISO performance.  Whether you need it or not, the 21 mp's will help you over the 5D.  Since the 5D was released in 2005/early 2006, you'd have to be careful of shutter count because it's not as durable as the 1D or 1Ds lines.  Actually, the 1Ds Mark II has higher IQ than the 5D and better ISO performance than the 5D, especially over 1600. 

Doubting the 5D Mark III price is going to drop soon, I'd probably go with a new 5D Mark II, if I were you.  Or get a refurbished one.  It's a great camera and it'll last you 4 years.  That's just what I would do.
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Marsu42

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 06:42:54 PM »
3.) buy 5D and rent 5D Mk II when needed - until 5D Mk III price drops to affordable level...or some lower specd FF body will be announced.

Starting from the current price, the 5d3 might not reach "affordable" in the foreseeable future, but rather "somewhat sane". Since it basically has the same sensor as the 5d2, if you don't need the upgraded servo af I don't see any killer feature that makes the 5d3 necessary. But there are endless threads on how to judge the individual updated features. My advice: Looking at your lens gear, the 5d3 is clearly overkill.

Depending on how critical your shooting is, I and many people whose advice I took would say that you need to own a camera body to get used to it. You can rent/borrow an expensive lens for special occasions if you want to (like the 70-200ii), but you need to know the exact camera body inside out.

I also want to keep the new cam for at least another 4 years (so I think that buying 5D Mk II is not so wise decision - reason is obvious = price). So what I'm really looking for now is your suggestion for the best temporary setup. What do you think ?

All setups are temporary, but I have to say that the span of 4 years seems rather long for bridging at least if you shoot a lot.

And I have to disagree with buying the 5d2 being unwise: It's as cheap as it'll get because its at the end of the product cycle, it runs magic lantern, it's still current tech e.g. working with the new radio flashes and it even has features for your primes that the 5d3 *doesn't* have: an exchangeable focusing screen that shows the real depth of field! And in 4 years you can upgrade straight to the 5d4 :-)

ddashti

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 07:08:54 PM »
Definitely go for the 5D Mark II in this case. The high ISO performance is pretty good, which you need.
But I'd say the 5D Mark III is even better (when/if you decide to get it, and if you save up for it).
In your case, however, go for the Mark II.

mitchell3417

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 07:42:57 PM »
I don't think the 5Dc goes above 1600 iso. 3200 is expandable and looks pretty questionable.

mark ii sounds like it fits your bill.
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japhoto

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 07:44:53 PM »
I'd choose the 1Ds MkII, even over the 5D MkII, but it all boils down to what you shoot. In fact I did choose the 1Ds MkII, but I rarely go over ISO400, so the worse ISO performance isn't a problem for me.

That said, if you would be satisfied with the 5Dc, the 1Ds MkII is better than it in pretty much all areas.

The issue with going 1-series is that you don't want to go back to "prosumer" cameras anymore...

bdunbar79

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 08:07:06 PM »
I'd choose the 1Ds MkII, even over the 5D MkII, but it all boils down to what you shoot. In fact I did choose the 1Ds MkII, but I rarely go over ISO400, so the worse ISO performance isn't a problem for me.

That said, if you would be satisfied with the 5Dc, the 1Ds MkII is better than it in pretty much all areas.

The issue with going 1-series is that you don't want to go back to "prosumer" cameras anymore...

The problem is, the 1Ds Mark II is going to run about $1500 on ebay give or take.  He can get a refurbished 5D Mark II for $1800ish.  The IQ of the 1Ds Mark II is not better than the 5D Mark II.  I agree it is close in IQ up to ISO 400, but beyond that, the 5D Mark II is better.  Same with 1Ds III vs. 5D Mark II.  The 1Ds III is much better ISO 50-200, but beyond, it's not better, perhaps just as good but not better.

That aside, if you get a 1Ds Mark II, you'll be fine.  But you can get a newer camera.
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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 08:07:06 PM »

japhoto

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 08:11:37 PM »
I'd choose the 1Ds MkII, even over the 5D MkII, but it all boils down to what you shoot. In fact I did choose the 1Ds MkII, but I rarely go over ISO400, so the worse ISO performance isn't a problem for me.

That said, if you would be satisfied with the 5Dc, the 1Ds MkII is better than it in pretty much all areas.

The issue with going 1-series is that you don't want to go back to "prosumer" cameras anymore...

The problem is, the 1Ds Mark II is going to run about $1500 on ebay give or take.  He can get a refurbished 5D Mark II for $1800ish.  The IQ of the 1Ds Mark II is not better than the 5D Mark II.  I agree it is close in IQ up to ISO 400, but beyond that, the 5D Mark II is better.  Same with 1Ds III vs. 5D Mark II.  The 1Ds III is much better ISO 50-200, but beyond, it's not better, perhaps just as good but not better.

That aside, if you get a 1Ds Mark II, you'll be fine.  But you can get a newer camera.

True and the reason I went this route is the build quality, weather sealing and especially the AF system compared to the 5D MkII. So if those things are important, it makes the 1Ds MkII a good choice.

bdunbar79

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 09:19:44 PM »
It has to be a good choice.  I remember in early 2005 that was retailing for $8000 some places!
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well_dunno

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 09:24:49 PM »
+1 for the 5D mk II with the same arguments that have been presented earlier in the thread. Perhaps second hand options if the current retail price is beyond reach?

Cheers!


paulc

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 11:11:10 PM »
1600 on my 5D looks like 800 on my 400D.  I seem to recall the 400 and 450 were pretty much dead even on ISO performance.

Erizo

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2012, 04:09:19 AM »
I'd suggest to choose between the 5D II and the 1Ds II, they should be at a similar price point used.

5D II has a better performance at high ISO (I guess ~ 1 Stop)
1Ds II has better auto-focus

I've considered the 1Ds II because the fact that only the center AF point is reliable on the 5D II was quite annoying after a while. If you don't need live view, I don't see much speaking against the 1Ds II.

Then there is the 1Ds III which can be had slightly used around 2500 €... but then you move even closer to 5D III price levels.

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2012, 04:17:17 AM »
From your own sugestions I would say go for 5D mkII. Everything has been said about IQ but I want to make a few points about other features that I did not really want when I upgraded from 5D Classic, but that I now would not want to live without. (I can not compare to 1-series because I have never used any 1-series camera).

- Sensor cleaning - if you switch lenses... this is a great help.
- Better LCD - yes, it makes a difference. Now I have a much better help at actually see the image. On 5D mkI and the 30D I was using before the LCD was merely giving a hint of the image, now it´s much more acurate.
- Micro adjustment for your lenses - Just great, although I only had to change the setting for one or two of my lenses. My 50 /1.4 went from rather ok on my 30D to very good on the 5d mkII, probably because of this.
- Live view - helpful sometimes. 1/200 images or so.
- Controll TTL-flashes from camera (with masterflash or flashtrigger) - Great when shooting in changing ambient light or changing light - subject distance.

There might be more small upgrades that I fail to remember right now, but my point is that the 5D mkII has more to offer compared to 5D classic appart from higher IQ @ high iso and higher resolution. It is really a kickass camera, and as you say, with a flash mounted for AF support (only in one shot AF) it often hits the spot even on dancefloors.

Good luck!

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2012, 04:17:17 AM »

mathino

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 04:19:28 AM »
Thank you for all your responses  :)

After reading all I see your point. I think I'll be happy with 5D Mk II. I'm shooting mainly stuff that my current AF can handle so I think 5D Mk II AF will do well (it is/was my main concern). I've seen tons of pics made with 5D Mk II at 3200+ ISO with great results (with NR for sure) - I'd be really happy with that. And having warranty is also great if something fails. Problem is that new 5D Mk II goes here for 1919 Euro - so I need to wait a little longer. I want to buy it at specific store because they have service in Vienna - every other store has one service center which doesn't have good reputation (they "managed" to scratch mirror and sensor).

Thanks for advises  ;)
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Marsu42

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 04:39:34 AM »
I've seen tons of pics made with 5D Mk II at 3200+ ISO with great results (with NR for sure) - I'd be really happy with that. And having warranty is also great if something fails.

It's funny how reading reviews and seeing established pros or well-off people buy the 5d3 will engineer you into thinking only the latest and greatest is able to take good pictures, isn't it :-p ?

Half a year ago the 5d2 (except for the af) was famed in Canon-land and had the best non-1d Canon sensor on the planet ... and in the tutorial books and videos I see many pros using the 5d2 for excellent results instead of the chunkier 1d, so you and I should be ok, too :-)

Quote from: mathino link=topic=7741.msg141634#msg141634
Problem is that new 5D Mk II goes here for 1919 Euro - so I need to wait a little longer. I want to buy it at specific store because they have service in Vienna - every other store has one service center which doesn't have good reputation (they "managed" to scratch mirror and sensor).

Fyi: In Germany, even good photo stores have it a little below €1800. It's good to buy your gear at a local store, because they record your purchases and will treat you accordingly in the future. Having said that, for every real defect, they'll send it to Canon anyway - so if you have a Canon service center around the corner like me in Berlin, you can carry a broken camera or lens there right away and save time.

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Re: FF advise (mainly stills)
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 04:39:34 AM »