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Author Topic: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]  (Read 30078 times)

traveller

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »
Interesting article on the old megapixel question:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/dxomark_sensor_for_benchmarking_cameras.shtml


As for the actual rumours... It's the same old "1Ds coming soon, before the 5D Mk3" vs. "no new 1Ds, but a merging of the 1D and 1Ds lines into a new 1D Mk5 next year, after the 5D Mk3 is announced".   

Who knows what to believe, but maybe if there is a 1Ds Mk4, it may use pixel binning or cropping to APS-H to achieve higher frame rates at lower resolution or higher ISO figures. 

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »

gene_can_sing

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 05:17:54 PM »
I just bought the 5d Mk II, the only limitation i see is I wish I could use every lens like the ef-s and the other lens like from sigma the DC line with the camera >.< other than, honestly these images are delicious and at the top of the game in quality, more mp? don't need that, and honestly I don't think we will see a 5d mk III for 2 more years :) or even more.

I think you're just hoping no 5D3 for 2 years, because you just bought one. Hehe... For the rest of us, especially video people, it can't come fast of enough. I'm hoping June, but it will probably be later.

As for the EF-s lenses, that would be cool. I heard somewhere (not sure if it's true), but doesn't Nikon have a 1.6x crop option on their full frames? That would be really cool for the new 5D3 for some extra reach, plus to match motion picture camera crops if you wanted to.

I'm fairly sure it will have the 3x crop deal, like the new Rebel, which is a really cool feature to have.

x-vision

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 05:36:31 PM »

It is much easier to scale down images than video.

Tell this to the pros taking 1000+ shots per event.

DetlevCM

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2011, 05:42:41 PM »

It is much easier to scale down images than video.

Tell this to the pros taking 1000+ shots per event.

Still less work than scaling down video.

-> 1000 images at 25fps is only 40s of video.

Bob Howland

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 08:57:20 PM »

It is much easier to scale down images than video.

Tell this to the pros taking 1000+ shots per event.

Still less work than scaling down video.

-> 1000 images at 25fps is only 40s of video.

"Scaling down" video is an inherent part of the rendering process. Using Sony Vegas, rendering is easy but it does tax the CPU like nothing else I've ever done. (All four cores immediately go to 90-100% utilization and stay there for the duration.) From what I understand, feature film post-production is often done at 4K pixels horizontally or more. A sensor capable of 4K full aperture (4096 X 3112 pixels) with a 1.5x aspect ratio would still only require 14.53MP, unless some sort of binning was done. That's not a lot of pixels.

ronderick

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2011, 09:33:14 PM »

As for the EF-s lenses, that would be cool. I heard somewhere (not sure if it's true), but doesn't Nikon have a 1.6x crop option on their full frames? That would be really cool for the new 5D3 for some extra reach, plus to match motion picture camera crops if you wanted to.


Yes, Nikon's FX bodies (FF) does have the option of using DX lens (the crop factor of Nikon is 1.5x).

Unfortunately, the catch is that you'll be shooting at half the megapixels (aka "crop" mode). So if you fit a 18-200 VRII onto a 12MP D3 body, you'll end up with roughly 6 MP shots.
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armando

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2011, 10:58:27 PM »

I think you're just hoping no 5D3 for 2 years, because you just bought one. Hehe... For the rest of us, especially video people, it can't come fast of enough. I'm hoping June, but it will probably be later.

lol guilty, dell does have a 90 day return item for business accounts, so.. :-) we will see.

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2011, 10:58:27 PM »

iPrevailed

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 12:22:45 AM »
i didnt give in yet :x and hopefully i wont

Stone

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 02:37:57 AM »
I think Canon will keep the 1DIV along side a new 1DV body, then photogs will have a choice between FF & APS-H.  I would imagine a FF 1DV will cost well above 5K and could easily be the next flagship body, high performance and FF are no longer mutually exclusive, Nikon has proven it and Canon will definitely need to match it.  I still don't see the purpose of another 1Ds body, people spending that kind of coin could easily step up to the higher end brands and I just can't imagine that Canon sells THAT many 1Ds bodies, hence the long hiatus as they decide if it's really worth it.
 
By the looks of it, Canon has no intention of competing in the midrange fast FF market, leaving it to the Nikon DXXX bodies, I see the 5DIII continuing to push the video niche without fast fps or sports oriented af.  It's working for them, so who could blame them.

if the 1DV, is FF and hits 10fps, it will be my next body.  If by some miracle, the 5DIII can do at least 8 fps with decent af, then I might go for that.  An APS-H 7D might be the sweet spot.  I still could give a flip about video so no opinion there.

god I love speculation....
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Stuart

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 04:49:36 AM »
Global Shutter, to solve video jello, moving object curl, high speed flash sync.
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Sigma 10-20, 70 F2.8, 70-300. Studio.
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NotABunny

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2011, 04:55:09 AM »
Is anyone else not happy about Canon packing more mega-pixels in?

Low light / high ISO performance is way more important to me than adding (what are in most cases) superfluous pixels.

Then scale down your images in post processing.

-> You get more per pixel noise with smaller pixels, yes, but not overall more noise.
Scale down your images and you have your 1MP noise free solution.

You might want to tell that to these people.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m41#Features

Click on "Canon HD CMOS Pro Image Sensor"

They are comparing their sensor with something not specified. There are two possibilities:
* The unmentioned sensor is physically smaller, so the Canon sensor implicitly performs better (= the size of the pixels is marketing talk for people who believe in pixel size relevance).
* The unmentioned sensor has the same physical size but more pixels (like 3 MP instead of the HD's 2 MP, which makes pixels smaller) and when they record HD movie they use only 1920 * 1080 pixels, which means that the physical size of the used sensor is smaller, and this is why they perform worse than the Canon sensor.


I've just seen they were comparing it to the models from 2010. So, there you go: VIXIA HF M32 ( http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m32#Specifications ) has a sensor of 1/4 (compared to 1/3) inches and 3MP.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 04:59:45 AM by NotABunny »

NotABunny

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2011, 05:06:10 AM »

It is much easier to scale down images than video.

Tell this to the pros taking 1000+ shots per event.

People (not pixel peepers) who look at the photos do NOT look at pixel level, they look at the whole picture on the display (or paper), which means the the photo viewer resizes them automatically to the display / printer resolution.

Bob Howland

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2011, 08:00:43 AM »
Is anyone else not happy about Canon packing more mega-pixels in?

Low light / high ISO performance is way more important to me than adding (what are in most cases) superfluous pixels.

Then scale down your images in post processing.

-> You get more per pixel noise with smaller pixels, yes, but not overall more noise.
Scale down your images and you have your 1MP noise free solution.

You might want to tell that to these people.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m41#Features

Click on "Canon HD CMOS Pro Image Sensor"

They are comparing their sensor with something not specified. There are two possibilities:
* The unmentioned sensor is physically smaller, so the Canon sensor implicitly performs better (= the size of the pixels is marketing talk for people who believe in pixel size relevance).
* The unmentioned sensor has the same physical size but more pixels (like 3 MP instead of the HD's 2 MP, which makes pixels smaller) and when they record HD movie they use only 1920 * 1080 pixels, which means that the physical size of the used sensor is smaller, and this is why they perform worse than the Canon sensor.


I've just seen they were comparing it to the models from 2010. So, there you go: VIXIA HF M32 ( http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m32#Specifications ) has a sensor of 1/4 (compared to 1/3) inches and 3MP.

Canon is also comparing it with the Canon S-series from 2010 which has 6.01MP "effective" instead of 2.07MP. (See the last sentence under "Superb Low-Light Performance [1.5 lux]".) If you'll check all my previous posts in this thread, you'll see that I previously pointed out that the sensor is larger in the new series.

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2011, 08:00:43 AM »

Bob Howland

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2011, 08:07:13 AM »

It is much easier to scale down images than video.

Tell this to the pros taking 1000+ shots per event.

People (not pixel peepers) who look at the photos do NOT look at pixel level, they look at the whole picture on the display (or paper), which means the the photo viewer resizes them automatically to the display / printer resolution.

And besides, resizing 1000 images is just a step in a Photoshop action run as a batch on images selected on Adobe Bridge.

Justin

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2011, 09:44:55 AM »
Speculation is tons of fun. I think the next 1D will be full frame and will include a dynamic crop mode. The 1Ds will be something more along the lines of the Pentax 645D, dare I say Canon 645D? Maybe not a bigger sensor, but improved sensor tech that gets us into the high 40 mp range on a 35mm-sized wafer. There needs to be a compelling reason to drop 10k on a camera and it needs to be about screaming medium format-like image quality and dynamic range with the niceties of an slr camera.

Then we just need a mirror-less solution from Canon to complete the lineup. I dont' see that coming too soon, but here's to hoping that it is an aps-c sized sensor solution and a slew of EF-S prime lenses in pancake formats: think 15, 21, 30, 50 mm (24, 35, 50, 85 mm equivalents).

5D3 should reach 5 fps and have the AF capabilities of the 7D. This is going to be my go-to camera for a variety of work.


I think Canon will keep the 1DIV along side a new 1DV body, then photogs will have a choice between FF & APS-H.  I would imagine a FF 1DV will cost well above 5K and could easily be the next flagship body, high performance and FF are no longer mutually exclusive, Nikon has proven it and Canon will definitely need to match it.  I still don't see the purpose of another 1Ds body, people spending that kind of coin could easily step up to the higher end brands and I just can't imagine that Canon sells THAT many 1Ds bodies, hence the long hiatus as they decide if it's really worth it.
 
By the looks of it, Canon has no intention of competing in the midrange fast FF market, leaving it to the Nikon DXXX bodies, I see the 5DIII continuing to push the video niche without fast fps or sports oriented af.  It's working for them, so who could blame them.

if the 1DV, is FF and hits 10fps, it will be my next body.  If by some miracle, the 5DIII can do at least 8 fps with decent af, then I might go for that.  An APS-H 7D might be the sweet spot.  I still could give a flip about video so no opinion there.

god I love speculation....

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Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2011, 09:44:55 AM »