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Author Topic: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]  (Read 74698 times)

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2012, 01:35:40 PM »
Umm.... I would be really suprised when one would choose Canon New Entry Level over Nikon D600 (as if reported specs of both cameras are correct) even if at the same price.  There is one exception is that that person has too many Canon lens (ooopsss).

Another thing that I guess D600 will probably be better in term of noise (if D600 matches D800 noise reduction design, but not the sharpness) since number of megapixels is way smaller (try to study pixel pitch/signal to noise ratio if one would like to understand more about this area.)

My conclusion is that if Canon wants to maintain their customers and draw more Canon customers, it must slighty beat Nikon in both ways, or at least stay within the same area of price and specs (must be aware of the powerful of social network in this century, not loosing one or two like in the past, but bunch...)

-- My 2 Cents

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2012, 01:35:40 PM »

munzzzzzzz

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »
Long time reader here, first time poster...

I'm excited about this announcement, but for a different reason than most others.  I tend to buy used bodies, and this should presumably push the price of used 5DMkII's even lower.  I've been hemming and hawing about picking up a 5Dc, but now I think I'll just wait until it comes out and hopefully the 5DMkII drops down well below $1500. For me, the MkII is fully adequate, I just can't quite justify the cost yet for my hobbyist needs.

stipotle

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2012, 01:38:14 PM »
I'm disappointed to hear this is the likely entry level FF.
I understand how this camera would "fit in" nicely and would provide a great upgrade for many different kinds of canon users, but it really doesn't seem like much of an upgrade to me.

I always saw the 5Dc and 5DmkII as latest and greatest sensors fit into the most affordable package Canon could make. While the 5DmkIII sensor is obviously better performing, by all accounts it's just improved efficiency, aimed at jpg improvement, and rather incremental after 4 years.
("Marketecture" ... lol that's great)

In this rumor I see a cheaper body and possibly fewer professional features in exchange for a better (4 year old) AF and little better sensor as a TRADE OFF, not an improvement (especially if no big price reduction from the mkII).
And after 4 years, to offer trade-offs instead of good tech improvement is kind of BS and not at all exciting. (An improvement to me would have been the low light 18mp 1DX sensor in a cheap body, or -while I personally don't want it- High MP in a cheap body, or the new 61pt AF in a cheap body, etc)

I get it, defend it as a great camera, and sure they are all great cameras blah blah blah, but most tech companies can't get away with such little advancement in almost half a decade's time.
(It reminds me of Apple's lack of improvement with the Mac Pro in the last few years and look how PISSED people are about that.) I guess it's just the principle of it and I don't see how more people _aren't_ disappointed. 

So, oh well.  It is what it is (and if IS not as impressive as what Nikon is trying to do).
But also if true, it makes the Mark II truly a great Canon buy and those who bought it in December last year happy happy people :)

Canon-F1

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »
Umm.... I would be really suprised when one would choose Canon New Entry Level over Nikon D600 (as if reported specs of both cameras are correct) even if at the same price.  There is one exception is that that person has too many Canon lens (ooopsss).

if a newbie wants to buy into the DSLR world and asks me what to buy .. and the specs are true.. my unbiased advice.. -> buy the D600.

sorry canon... but on paper the D600 looks better.

TAF

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2012, 01:48:42 PM »
It sounds more or less like Canon is planning on packaging the 5D3 electronics into a Rebel body - which is exactly what I would like to buy.

I bought the 5D3, and am throughly enjoying using it, but is rather heavy.  I would be delighted to have a body that weighs like my Xt but with the capabilities of the 5D3.  I'm fine with plastics (it's all in how they're used), and the extra weather sealing of the more expensive camera is not really necessary for my uses.  I would give up the 61 pt AF in a heartbeat - it is really unnecessary, and not very well designed in my opinion - but I would want to keep the very high ISO (the primary reason I bought the 5D3), auto iso, and some of the other new features.

A $2K price point would have meant more glass in the bag...if only it had come out 3 month ago!


Daniel Flather

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2012, 01:56:06 PM »
I can't wait for such a camera…
Why? Because my wife started using my 5dmk3, she fell in love with it and no longer loves her 60D….and i can't afford to buy another 5D :) So…this would fit her just nice! And my wallet too..hehe

Giver her your 5d3 and you can use her 60d, problem solved. 
| 5D3 | 8-15L | 24L II | 35L | 50L | 85L II | 100/2.8 | 200/2L | EOS M | 22 STM |

AJ

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2012, 01:56:37 PM »
I'm very excited by the news, happy that it's CR2 and not just a wild rumor.

- I'm excited about a plastic body.  I'm a traveler and hiker, and every gram counts.
- Same price as 5D2, but it'll have vastly better AF, a newer sensor, and it'll have digic5.
- If the price starts at $2k at launch, it'll only go downward from there on

I wonder if the new lens will be 28-135/3.5-5.6 mk2 STM?

 This might just be the camera that'll have me switch from crop to FF.  But then I'll have to buy new UWA and fisheye lenses  :-\

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2012, 01:56:37 PM »

AdamJ

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2012, 02:12:18 PM »
I'm very excited by the news, happy that it's CR2 and not just a wild rumor.

- I'm excited about a plastic body.  I'm a traveler and hiker, and every gram counts.
- Same price as 5D2, but it'll have vastly better AF, a newer sensor, and it'll have digic5.
- If the price starts at $2k at launch, it'll only go downward from there on

I wonder if the new lens will be 28-135/3.5-5.6 mk2 STM?

 This might just be the camera that'll have me switch from crop to FF.  But then I'll have to buy new UWA and fisheye lenses  :-\

Another enthusiastic target buyer. Perhaps Canon have got it right.

syder

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2012, 02:18:20 PM »
The 5D MkIII sensor, 7D like autofocus, and a pop-up flash (probably with flash control) and it's not an upgrade over the MkII for the same price?. 

if canon would be the only camera maker it sure looks like a good deal.
compared to the rumored D600... well... no.

and you have to understand the different needs.

for me the 5D MK3 sensor has no real advantage.
i shot below ISO 1600 99% of the time.

i shoot landscape, macro and home studio studio stuff.
85% of the time i use the center AF point.

i shot no video.

so why should people like me update to a 5D MK3 or this new FF camera?

from a company point of view it sure makes sense.
but we are individuals here, with individual needs.

So you're happy to accept that the 5Dm3 is better for people who shoot video
...and for those who shoot weddings
...and those who shoot events
...and those who shoot sports
...and of course anyone who does any of the above and studio or landscape work

The main complaints about the 5Dm2 were around AF and FPS, not image quality, and these things have been improved. To be honest the 5Dm3 isn't the world's greatest studio camera, and it clearly hasn't been designed to be a specialist studio/landscape camera...

...Maybe wait for the Canon big megapixel camera? It sounds like it'll offer you the upgrade you clearly think you need. And if you can't wait for it then buy a D800 or go MF both will do what you do better than a 5Dm3. However, for most studio needs that 5Dm2 was fine. The 5dm3 isn't any worse, and it adds a lot in other areas. If those other areas don't interest you then fine, just accept that it isn't the right tool for you and get on with your life.

darrellrhodesmiller

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2012, 02:19:53 PM »
i really like the idea of a smaller lighter full frame, i dont need 9 fps.. or 60 focusing points. what i do need is the low light performance and the high ISO performance of the 5d mk III.

i know this wont be a perfect camera, but i'm really looking forward to seeing what really comes out and the performance of it. Nikon is really pushing Canon in good new ways. competition is a good thing.

D

Canon-F1

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »
So you're happy to accept that the 5Dm3 is better for people who shoot video
...and for those who shoot weddings
...and those who shoot events
...and those who shoot sports
...and of course anyone who does any of the above and studio or landscape work

he wrote: and you have to understand the different needs.

i mean it´s pretty clear that he accepts that, or not?

Quote
And if you can't wait for it then buy a D800 or go MF both will do what you do better than a 5Dm3.

i think many here have put a lot of money in a CANON SYSTEM.
so we ask canon to deliver.... not nikon.

and i think it is only human that we want the best, not only good enough.
competition is in our DNA.. olympics 2012? :)


Quote
The 5dm3 isn't any worse, and it adds a lot in other areas. If those other areas don't interest you then fine, just accept that it isn't the right tool for you and get on with your life.


Quote from: astro
but we are individuals here, with individual needs

looks like he has accepted that already but some here won´t let him have his own opinion.  ::)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 02:34:49 PM by Canon-F1 »

Marine03

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2012, 02:50:12 PM »
I to am excited in some ways by this camera. 

1st. upgrading to FF from my 450D I dream over the possibilities of low light photography and stunning images.
2. I have done several events like weddings this year with the 450D as a second shooter, about $400 worth so far for the year and $3500 is never going to be in my budget with a new family.  $2000 kit or less with just body however would be a possibility.
3.  19PT AF would be great for the occasional sports shots, I'm a center point type of guy most the time.
4.  I'm not afraid of plastic bodies, 4 years of 450D use and I haven't broken it yet.  Maybe every 5D owner uses it to drive nails?
5.  FPS, 4?  ehhhhh I guess that's is tolerable, I normally don't need more than my 3.2 I currently have but wish I had 6FPS some days, which I doubt would happen with the 5D3 being 6, but how about 5?
6. Built in flash can be handy especially if its a trigger. 

ooo and please don't totally cripple it with like a 5 shot buffer.
6D, 450D(collecting dust), Nifty Fifty, 565EX Flash

DJL329

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2012, 02:57:30 PM »
Will a plastic body mean they could add GPS?  (If I remember correctly, the magnesium body is the reason that Canon states the 5D II and III can't have in-camera GPS.)

As for a new, non-L kit lens, could it be the long-awaited 50mm f/1.4 USM II  -or- a 50mm f/1.4 STM?
Canon 5D MKIII | 14mm f/2.8L | 16-35mm f/4L IS | 24mm f/2.8 IS | 50mm f/1.4 | 85mm f/1.8 | 100mm f/2.8L IS | 200mm f/2.8L II | 300mm f/4L IS | 400mm f/4 DO IS II

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2012, 02:57:30 PM »

7enderbender

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »
How does this make sense? Why would I want a $2000 plastic 5DII equivalent when I can have the real thing for the same money? And I don't believe there is any noticeable difference between the 5DII and 5DIII sensor. So what gives?


If you don't think there is a noticable difference between the 5DII and 5DIII sensor then maybe you could tell me if you notice a difference between these photos:

[...]

That's a back to back comparison with the 5D3 resized to 5D2 size. The 5D3 sensor has a significantly better AA filter that is more efficient in terms of preventing lost detail for a given level of moire reduction and so produces sharper images.

Furthermore many of the people saying that the 5D3 isn't that much better in ISO are not comparing the cameras correctly in likely two ways. Camera manufactuers generally make up their cameras ISO ratings out of thin air. There are a few acceptable ways of rating ISO but most manufacturers chose fringe methods which aren't widely respected so the can make up their ISO numbers as they see fit and when the 5D2 was released the ISO ratings were very optimistic to say the least with ISO 12800 being actually around what is commonly accepted as ISO 7000. With the 5D3 Canon has been less optimistic so ISO 12800 is actually a "true" ISO of 10000. The point is that people are comparing cameras using their RATED ISO which are on different scales not ISO measured on the same scale. It's like comparing a car going 0-60 kph vs a car that's going 0-60 mph, which doesn't make sense. The other issue is that after speaking to several Canon Techs and Reps, it seems that Canon specially designed the 5D3 to produce very low noise JPG's for photographers that have to shoot in JPG. Part of the innovation that they introduced was software but they also engineered the hardware to help in the process to make the noise coming from the sensor have far less speckle noise and have a very gausian distribution. This makes computer programs able to distinguish from the noise easier so when you apply noise reduction there is a slight advantage to the 5D3 of around a quarter of a stop more than the RAW data would suggest.


In any case here's a comparison between the 5D3 and the 5D2 rendered at the same resolution with the same ACR settings applied at a true ISO of 10084 for both cameras, this is a combination of a series of exposures using a method developed in consultation with the Cambridge Signal Processing Lab. I do consulting for a few camera review websites to develop testing methods and put this together for a project, with permission from all collaborators.

In any case feel free to spot the difference between the 5D2 and 5D3. :)

[...]


Look, that's all fine and maybe I should have said "noticeable difference for all practical purposes" or something to that extent. Clearly the 5DIII is a positive development on many levels. I wouldn't mind having one. And I can see that there are applications and user types who need exactly those improvements.

All I'm saying is that to me personally I see no reason to sell my MarkII and shell out a significant amount of money to upgrade. Hi ISO stuff, AF, and all the other improvements are not important enough for me and I have yet to see a real life photo where any one would say, wow, this was shot with camera A, B or C. They are all very very good, no doubt. None is "perfect".

So everyone needs to balance features, little quirks and cost of course. I personally would want a smaller, more plasticky camera for the minuscule improvement in the sensor functions that at least for my real-life applications wouldn't make any difference. Honestly, the 5DII is small and plasticky enough as it is. I actually added the battery grip to add some weight for balancing things according to what I'm used to and prefer.

And as I said, the biggest selling point for a 5DIII or 1DX would be its compatibility with the new flash system. But that adds even a LOT more money.

Considerations for people with other priorities or people new to a system may look entirely different and I'm not saying that's not valid. I'm just struggling with the above rumored features for that kind of money. 2k is hardly "entry level".

5DII - 50L - 135L - 200 2.8L - 24-105 - 580EXII - 430EXII - FD 500/8 - AE1-p - bag full of FD lenses

Dylan777

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2012, 02:58:21 PM »
I'm very excited by the news, happy that it's CR2 and not just a wild rumor.

- I'm excited about a plastic body.  I'm a traveler and hiker, and every gram counts.
- Same price as 5D2, but it'll have vastly better AF, a newer sensor, and it'll have digic5.
- If the price starts at $2k at launch, it'll only go downward from there on

I wonder if the new lens will be 28-135/3.5-5.6 mk2 STM?

 This might just be the camera that'll have me switch from crop to FF.  But then I'll have to buy new UWA and fisheye lenses  :-\

Another enthusiastic target buyer. Perhaps Canon have got it right.

I agreed.

FF sensor + 19points AF = enough for enthusiastic shooter to jump from crop to FF.
ML: A7R II & A7s -- FE35f1.4 -- FE35f2.8 -- FE55 -- FE85GM -- FE2470GM -- FE70200GM
DSLR: 1Dx + 200L f2 IS  -- sadly replaced this combo with a7s + 70200GM

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2012, 02:58:21 PM »