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Author Topic: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]  (Read 52068 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #240 on: July 17, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »
Think of it, if ISO 12,800 on an mk3 looks like ISO 3200 on a mk2, then, if you can achieve similar quality (not even equal, lets say ISO 6400 looks like ISO 3200 on an mk2...then yeah that would be enough to make me say give me this entry level FF as my backup...)


I have a 5DII and I will upgrade to 5DIII, but high ISO performance is NOT that much better unless you shoot only JPG. Who does that on a 5D series camera?

Comparing ISO performance using out-of-the-camera jpeg shots is nonsense.

The only place you get 2 stops of improvement is in video. That is cool on it's own. For photos it is about 1/2 a stop improvement.

Other than that, I agree the 5DIII is an awesome camera with a ton of upgrades over the 5DII.

Actually, I was talking about RAW files.  I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and have done some pretty nutty ridiculous low light shots, all in RAW.  My frame of reference is mostly from the 7D, but, I have talked with many who have used the mk2 more than me and they are saying the same thing...basically 12800 ISO is the new 3200 ISO, and where 6400 used to be i'd go there if i had too, its now totally usable (seriously 6400 looks like 1600 on my 7d).

I can believe 2 stops improvement compared to the 7D. Most of the reviews indicate only a modest improvement over the 5DII at high ISO, except apparently the in-camera JPGs. Reviews do indicate that high ISO in Movie mode improves enormously in the 5DIII.

Either way, you have a great camera, and I intend to get one too :)

You'll just have to experience it yourself I guess...and when you do, you'll be saying wow a lot!

The attached shot - ISO 20,000 - f4, 1/40th, taken at night no flash...4th of july...this was on my second day with the mk3, was shooting the fireworks, played it safe for most of that night and used flash, once I had fulfilled my requirements decided to play and snap some candids at crazy high ISO just to see how it would handle it. I'd say, not so bad...   ;D :D
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #240 on: July 17, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »

mrgazpacho

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #241 on: July 17, 2012, 11:11:20 PM »
Are not all Canon DSLRs compatible with full frame STM lenses?

I think the emphasis is on the full-time quiet video AF capability.

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #242 on: July 18, 2012, 01:12:20 AM »

You'll just have to experience it yourself I guess...and when you do, you'll be saying wow a lot!

The attached shot - ISO 20,000 - f4, 1/40th, taken at night no flash...4th of july...this was on my second day with the mk3, was shooting the fireworks, played it safe for most of that night and used flash, once I had fulfilled my requirements decided to play and snap some candids at crazy high ISO just to see how it would handle it. I'd say, not so bad...   ;D :D

were you shot that picture under raw or jpeg format? any noise reduction level were set?  as if you allow me to ask...

thanks

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #243 on: July 18, 2012, 01:33:46 AM »
shot RAW, no in cam noise reduction ---I reduced noise in lightroom, adjusted color temp, and lifted the shadows a bit
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

ssrdd

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #244 on: July 18, 2012, 01:58:55 AM »
2000/-??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Canon must be kidding.

Again it lost on
Nikon D600 24mp full frame under 1600usd.

How do you figure that the D600 will be better than the new Canon ff?

Neither have been announced nor tested - yet you are dissing Canon?

well look at the chronology of the canons price factor.
500$ less cheaper D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3.

so i guess D600 performs as well as price mentioned, but canon never did perform as their worth.

briansquibb

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #245 on: July 18, 2012, 02:38:23 AM »
2000/-??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Canon must be kidding.

Again it lost on
Nikon D600 24mp full frame under 1600usd.

How do you figure that the D600 will be better than the new Canon ff?

Neither have been announced nor tested - yet you are dissing Canon?

well look at the chronology of the canons price factor.
500$ less cheaper D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3.

so i guess D600 performs as well as price mentioned, but canon never did perform as their worth.

I guess that is why Nikon is #2 then

Does the "D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3" ? I would guess which angle you are coming from and is totally subjective.

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #246 on: July 18, 2012, 02:43:02 AM »
2000/-??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Canon must be kidding.

Again it lost on
Nikon D600 24mp full frame under 1600usd.

How do you figure that the D600 will be better than the new Canon ff?

Neither have been announced nor tested - yet you are dissing Canon?

well look at the chronology of the canons price factor.
500$ less cheaper D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3.

so i guess D600 performs as well as price mentioned, but canon never did perform as their worth.

I guess that is why Nikon is #2 then

Does the "D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3" ? I would guess which angle you are coming from and is totally subjective.

i'm still trying to decipher "chronology of the canons price factor"  :o
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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #246 on: July 18, 2012, 02:43:02 AM »

fman

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #247 on: July 18, 2012, 04:40:35 AM »

Are you really suggesting that a GH2 is better than my 1DS3 with 200 f/2?   ... then probably there is no point in any further discussion...

From flexibility/portability perspective a GH2 + a bunch of micro 4/3 lens (which still cost less, weighs less and takes less space in your bag) are way better than an 1Ds3 with 200 f/2.
So yes in 99.9999% of the cases yes micro 4/3 with a bunch of lens is better (for stills E-M5, for video GH2 or G5). For the remaining 0.0001% 1Ds3+ 200 f/2 wins big time (when you need extreme low light performance, background blurring etc.).

All I wanted to say that entry level DSLRs (no matter if crop or FF) with kit lens is a very heavy and space taking way for non pro usage. In most of the cases it's also a costly way. Far too many people have the misconception that for vacations, daily snapshots they need a DSLR and couple of expensive lens. In fact most would be better served with something smaller, lighter and most of the time less expensive.
Real pro usage is different. However that's probably not the target for an entry level crop or FF DSLR with crippled ergonomics and functionality.

maxxevv

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #248 on: July 18, 2012, 05:11:28 AM »

well look at the chronology of the canons price factor.
500$ less cheaper D800 beets the crap out of 500$ more expensive 5Dmk3.

so i guess D600 performs as well as price mentioned, but canon never did perform as their worth.

don't get what you mean in the first sentence.

But in my part of the world, the 5DMkIII is actually cheaper than the D800 in the stores. And availability is way, way better. The stores basically can get hold of replacement stocks within 5-6 working days right from the first batches ( which were like barely 2~3 weeks after launch). D800 was a rare commodity for a few months in fact. None of the shops could get hold of any for multiple weeks ( stretches into a month + ) after their first batch. And it was similarly so for replacement batches.  Even now, the shops cannot confirm when their next shipment be should they finish their existing stock.

What good is a camera that you can barely get hold of versus one that you could have used to shoot for thousands of quality photos and captured plenty of priceless memories in the same elapsed time ?

briansquibb

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #249 on: July 18, 2012, 06:08:25 AM »

Are you really suggesting that a GH2 is better than my 1DS3 with 200 f/2?   ... then probably there is no point in any further discussion...

From flexibility/portability perspective a GH2 + a bunch of micro 4/3 lens (which still cost less, weighs less and takes less space in your bag) are way better than an 1Ds3 with 200 f/2.
So yes in 99.9999% of the cases yes micro 4/3 with a bunch of lens is better (for stills E-M5, for video GH2 or G5). For the remaining 0.0001% 1Ds3+ 200 f/2 wins big time (when you need extreme low light performance, background blurring etc.).

All I wanted to say that entry level DSLRs (no matter if crop or FF) with kit lens is a very heavy and space taking way for non pro usage. In most of the cases it's also a costly way. Far too many people have the misconception that for vacations, daily snapshots they need a DSLR and couple of expensive lens. In fact most would be better served with something smaller, lighter and most of the time less expensive.
Real pro usage is different. However that's probably not the target for an entry level crop or FF DSLR with crippled ergonomics and functionality.

If you are after something portable and cheap then clearly a P&S would be better than a 4/3 using your argument

However, weight and money are not everybody's priority. You might think that on vacation smaller, lighter and less expensive is 'better' but I dont want to come back with 'snaps'. I am going on vacation to France on Saturday and will be going round the chateaux and castles as well as some birding( my wife's hobby).

I will have the 1DS3 and 1DS2 plus 40mm, 24-105, 70-200, 70-300, 17-40 and tse24, probably the 600, plus of course a couple of 580s and stands. On holiday one has the time and opportunity to get good pictures so a 4/3 would be a waste of time and effort.

The large whites are about high IQ as much as low light (I use flash anyway) and bg blurring.

trulandphoto

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #250 on: July 18, 2012, 06:38:40 AM »
I haven't read all the posts, but I'm going to predict the new kit lens will be an EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM.

fman

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #251 on: July 18, 2012, 07:04:48 AM »
I will have the 1DS3 and 1DS2 plus 40mm, 24-105, 70-200, 70-300, 17-40 and tse24, probably the 600, plus of course a couple of 580s and stands. On holiday one has the time and opportunity to get good pictures so a 4/3 would be a waste of time and effort.

The large whites are about high IQ as much as low light (I use flash anyway) and bg blurring.

Although I have couple of Canon lens (2 of them are whites, but would prefer them in black)+DSLR body, my choice for vacation: Pana 7-14, 14-140 or 14-45 (14-150 would be for Oly) and 20 1.7 + Oly 45 1.8.
So altogether 4 lens (2 zooms, 2 primes).

I don't think that equipment would be holding back me in anything (ok. there is no TS in the set, but TS would be the last thing I'd take with me with for vacation; there is also no macro but I don't shoot macro so much to justify the Pana 45 2.8 ).

I know people who swapped 7D and couple of L lens for such a set.  I won't swap DSLR (as it has also its place) but I really don't get excited hearing such rumors like in this post.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 07:06:57 AM by fman »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #252 on: July 18, 2012, 07:48:13 AM »
I will have the 1DS3 and 1DS2 plus 40mm, 24-105, 70-200, 70-300, 17-40 and tse24, probably the 600, plus of course a couple of 580s and stands. On holiday one has the time and opportunity to get good pictures so a 4/3 would be a waste of time and effort.

The large whites are about high IQ as much as low light (I use flash anyway) and bg blurring.

Although I have couple of Canon lens (2 of them are whites, but would prefer them in black)+DSLR body, my choice for vacation: Pana 7-14, 14-140 or 14-45 (14-150 would be for Oly) and 20 1.7 + Oly 45 1.8.
So altogether 4 lens (2 zooms, 2 primes).

I don't think that equipment would be holding back me in anything (ok. there is no TS in the set, but TS would be the last thing I'd take with me with for vacation; there is also no macro but I don't shoot macro so much to justify the Pana 45 2.8 ).

I know people who swapped 7D and couple of L lens for such a set.  I won't swap DSLR (as it has also its place) but I really don't get excited hearing such rumors like in this post.

Visiting historical buildings and no TS - I just couldn't contemplate it

This thread is about full frame cameras - I have 3 and am waiting for the 4th to be delivered. My standard walkabout is the 1DS3 and 70-200 f/2.8L II hanging off a BR strap. Even simple family shots can be turned into works of art so far beyond the possibilities of a 4/3.




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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #252 on: July 18, 2012, 07:48:13 AM »

fman

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #253 on: July 18, 2012, 08:15:14 AM »
I'm always surprised at people who have never tried micro 4/3 and yet they are convinced that they need a FF DSLR with ultra fast lens to make good family/vacation photos (or a portrait cannot be good enough if the background is not melted to nothing).
Lack of confidence? Addiction?
I've been in places where even a small camera with a small lens was high risk to attract too much attention (hint: e.g. one of the new 7 Wonders of the World).

Etienne

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #254 on: July 18, 2012, 09:26:45 AM »

You'll just have to experience it yourself I guess...and when you do, you'll be saying wow a lot!

The attached shot - ISO 20,000 - f4, 1/40th, taken at night no flash...4th of july...this was on my second day with the mk3, was shooting the fireworks, played it safe for most of that night and used flash, once I had fulfilled my requirements decided to play and snap some candids at crazy high ISO just to see how it would handle it. I'd say, not so bad...   ;D :D

That shot looks great. I never go above 6,400 on the 5DII.
There are a lot of things I am going to love about the 5DIII.
Thanks for the shot. btw ... what lens?

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Re: Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]
« Reply #254 on: July 18, 2012, 09:26:45 AM »