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Author Topic: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]  (Read 17730 times)

jrista

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2012, 05:04:35 PM »
While I'm a fan of the DSLR, I'm very interested in seeing what Canon does with their first mirrorless entry. Based on the previous rumors here, it will be more consumer grade than professional grade, so I don't expect it to have all the frills that the upper end Nikon and Sony mirrorless entries do.

It will be interesting to see how competitive Canon actually gets though...might be telling about the future of Canon DSLR in this more competitive and rapidly advancing market. Will they use FPPD-AF, or a form of FPPD+CD AF (like they demonstrated with the 650D)? How many AF points? What kind of sensor...APS-C sized? Backlit? Large pixels or small pixels? EVF, and what kind of functionality? It'll be interesting, good or bad, to see what Canon releases. I really hope its very competitive, but I expect it to be rather middle ground...neither "sucky" nor "great".
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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2012, 05:04:35 PM »

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2012, 05:09:11 PM »
well at least it´s no m43 sized sensor.

...

I wonder how you can say that when we don't even know the specs yet?

do you read the same website?
you did not notice that all rumors point to an aps-c sensor?

Daniel Flather

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 05:22:50 PM »
It's officially unconfirmed!

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 05:30:01 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

marekjoz

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2012, 05:40:22 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

Isn't the Sony's "Exmor R" a back illuminated sensor?
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traveller

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2012, 05:46:23 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

Isn't the Sony's "Exmor R" a back illuminated sensor?

Yes, but it isn't made in APS-C or FF size. 

marekjoz

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2012, 06:21:52 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

Isn't the Sony's "Exmor R" a back illuminated sensor?

Yes, but it isn't made in APS-C or FF size.

You're right. Then it might be Canon in their labs: http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-large-back-illuminated-sensor/ :)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 06:23:46 PM by marekjoz »
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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2012, 06:21:52 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 07:13:05 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

Isn't the Sony's "Exmor R" a back illuminated sensor?

Yes, but it isn't made in APS-C or FF size.

You're right. Then it might be Canon in their labs: http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-large-back-illuminated-sensor/ :)

Interesting, now we know what the next 5D4 and 1Dx2 sensors will use this tech. 8)

Prepare for a usable 102,400 ISO. Which if your read that number out-loud, is a joke from a person coming from film. :o

jrista

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2012, 07:41:38 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

If it was a REALLY high density sensor, where pixel pitch was under 2 microns, it would probably be required to use a backilluminated design. If we are talking in the realm of 16-18mp in APS-C size, the improvement to QE (which would help ISO performance) wouldn't be particularly massive...but it would make the sensor very competitive. Especially if its also an FPPD-AF sensor.
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Ryan708

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2012, 07:45:16 PM »
Low light shoting gets me pretty horned up. Im quite jealous of the 1dx images i have seen already. I say quit the war to make MORE megapixels and make BETTER pixels! If bestbuy could advertise ISO noise and dynamic range as well as they advertise MEGAPIXELS we would probably end up with better gear down the line. well, in my price range. canon has plenty of gear out of my range :-P
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alfeel

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2012, 08:10:35 PM »
I hope the pack it with some serious fast primes (f/1.4, I doubt they will use faster lenses) rather than "consumer-grade" zoom. I'm waiting 'till monday hoping in a nice announcement otherwise I think I'll go to fuji for my "always-with-me" camera..



btw here it's a graph found on dpreview.com of the chroma noise of some cameras, including the X-Pro1 and the 5D mark III the fuji beat out the cr*p of all these camera according to chroma noise (it wins also with the other two kind of noise btw but not with such a large margin).
I think other manufacturer should try to implement smth like fuji did with this sensor! too bad the autofocus is not top notch, otherwise the X-Pro1 would have been an hell of a camera!

jrista

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2012, 08:11:02 PM »
Low light shoting gets me pretty horned up. Im quite jealous of the 1dx images i have seen already. I say quit the war to make MORE megapixels and make BETTER pixels! If bestbuy could advertise ISO noise and dynamic range as well as they advertise MEGAPIXELS we would probably end up with better gear down the line. well, in my price range. canon has plenty of gear out of my range :-P

Have you not seen the D800 with its stupendous Sony Exmor sensor? I would say that sensor debunks the whole megapixel myth that more megapixels is a waste of time and we should make "better" pixels...the D800 IS BETTER PIXELS, and more of then! It performs excellently at high ISO, and is the highest density FF sensor by a long shot. From an IQ standpoint, while it may not reach a native ISO 51200, it captures a far finer degree of detail than the 1D X is even remotely capable of, offering some two stops greater DR, and it does so with minimal noise. Sony didn't have to use any cheats like Canon did, either...no weakening of the CFA and killing off native color fidelity or anything like that.

Sony has proven more pixels with better quality IS possible, so why should we stop pushing for both? I want 47mp FF with 13 stops of DR and slightly better noise characteristics than the 7D.
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wickidwombat

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 08:50:30 PM »
I hope the pack it with some serious fast primes (f/1.4, I doubt they will use faster lenses) rather than "consumer-grade" zoom. I'm waiting 'till monday hoping in a nice announcement otherwise I think I'll go to fuji for my "always-with-me" camera..



btw here it's a graph found on dpreview.com of the chroma noise of some cameras, including the X-Pro1 and the 5D mark III the fuji beat out the cr*p of all these camera according to chroma noise (it wins also with the other two kind of noise btw but not with such a large margin).
I think other manufacturer should try to implement smth like fuji did with this sensor! too bad the autofocus is not top notch, otherwise the X-Pro1 would have been an hell of a camera!

i just got my fuji x10 back from having the sensor replaced after an epic fight with them
and its even worse now the on off is flakey and at iso 100 DR400 and M mode the noise looks more like iso 6400

gonna have to take it back next week AGAIN

I dont think i'll buy anything from FUJI again in a hurry i dont care how good it looks on paper or a graph
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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 08:50:30 PM »

weixing

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2012, 09:39:11 PM »
Hi,
    May be it'll be a interchangeable lens version of G1x with 650D APS-C sensor...  ;)

    Have a nice day.

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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2012, 10:19:40 PM »
Does any company make Back-side illuminated sensors in Aps-C or FF Size? Wouldn't this tech allow a massive jump in ISO performance?

No. It doesn't make sense from a cost-benefit viewpoint.

The reason that rear illuminated sensors are good for tiny sensors is that each pixel that needs to be read requires a certain amount of space for the 'wire' to read the signal from that pixel. The space taken up by the wires used to read the pixel cannot be used to capture light.

(Almost) The same amount of space is required per pixel regardless of what the sensor size is.

So on a tiny little 1/2.3" sensor changing to rear illuminated means that there could be 50% space for capturing photons. On a 1.6 crop or full frame sensors, the space taken up by the 'wires' is really small compared to the area used to capture light, so you could maybe get 5% more space for capturing photons by switching to a rear-illuminated sensor.

Because they're harder to make (which translates to more expensive to manufacture and higher defect rate) there's no point getting a 5% increase in light capturing on a large sensor, whereas getting 50% more light in tiny sensors does make sense.


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Re: A Bit of Mirrorless Informaton [CR3]
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2012, 10:19:40 PM »