August 27, 2014, 09:24:21 PM

Author Topic: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III  (Read 8799 times)

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13931
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2012, 02:40:14 PM »
If you are doing your tests indoors on a normal floor you will see different results.  The reason is any vibration in the floor impacts your camera.  I found that I couldn't run the test on the main floor of my house, I had to move to the garage with its concrete floor.  Concrete basement would have also worked.  I also use a double halogen work light to keep the target well lit.

When trying to test my 100-400 lens there was enough of a breeze outside to slightly vibrate the tripod, again that was enough to throw the test off (or more to the point the graph is all over the place making it hard to determine the right adjustment).

Indeed, vibration is a killer.  I did testing a while back on my first floor (hardwood) and it worked ok with an empty house but had lots of failed runs if my daughters were running around.  The basement works well.  To go over 45 feet distance, I need to go outside - I used constant lighting to supplement the daylight, set ISO 400, and found that even at 400mm f/5.6 I got consistent results despite an occasional zephyr, likely because I was getting 1/1600 s shutter speeds.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Viggo

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2024
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2012, 02:42:31 PM »
I adjusted my lenses under artificial light, and had to skip it and after a few mails with the FoCal dudes, it turns out that the flickering in artificial light can create problems, for instance under fluorecent it was absolutely consistently in front by the same amount on all lenses. Outdoors, it was as consistent, but now they were all dead on.

On a side not, I got a heads up from the FoCal people that my 50 L would cause trouble to adjust. I went great with the 5d3, but on the 5d2 I spent nearly three hours as it kept loosing the target during testing.
1dx, 24-70 L II, 50 Art, 200 f2.0 L

epsiloneri

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2012, 03:15:07 PM »
( I do realize no support for manual lenses i.e MP-E 65 as of yet)
Very funny ;D

Sony

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2012, 01:23:38 AM »
I know on that price of 69.95 BP to 108.59 USD then PayPal tacks on another $4 and change.  I wanted to read more about the product and when searching I found the Martin Bailey site and get lucky.

I was on the Martin Bailey site but couldnt find the link or something link to FoCal discount. Can you show me how? Thanks
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 01:25:19 AM by Sony »

TC1006

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2012, 11:00:53 PM »
I know on that price of 69.95 BP to 108.59 USD then PayPal tacks on another $4 and change.  I wanted to read more about the product and when searching I found the Martin Bailey site and get lucky.

I was on the Martin Bailey site but couldnt find the link or something link to FoCal discount. Can you show me how? Thanks

Here you go.
http://www.reikan.co.uk/focal/mbp45/

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2012, 10:53:25 AM »
Any one else have any comments on this or own this software with the 5D Mark III?  PS I found the Martin Bailey site had it on a promo for £45 British pounds or $73 US vs  £69.95 or $112.21 USD.

Thanks for the reference to Martin Bailey's site and the associated discount. His review is here:
http://blog.martinbaileyphotography.com/2012/02/06/podcast-321-lens-calibration-and-microadjustment-with-focal/
And the discounted page is here:
http://www.reikan.co.uk/focal/mbp45/

Although his page says "This discount will be available until March 31st 2012, but only if you buy from a special page setup specifically for MBP listeners" - I clicked through today and bought the Pro version for 45GBP or roughly ~$70CDN. I have been meaning to try out this software so that was just the incentive I needed to pull the trigger. I will let you know if it messes up my 5D3 :D

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2012, 10:56:21 AM »
I forgot to ask, how much time should budget to calibrate my five lenses? 3-4 hours? I have the 24-105, 70-200 f4/IS, 85/1.8, 135L and a fifty prime.

Do you calibrate with IS turned off?

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13931
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2012, 12:13:39 PM »
I forgot to ask, how much time should budget to calibrate my five lenses? 3-4 hours? I have the 24-105, 70-200 f4/IS, 85/1.8, 135L and a fifty prime.

Do you calibrate with IS turned off?

Depends on how many focal lengths you test.  I'd figure about 10 minutes each.  Personally, I do the zooms at both ends and also in between, e.g. 24-105 at 24, 50, 85, and 105mm.  I also test at distances of 25x and 50x focal length - gives me sufficient data to pick the best AFMA value.

Yes, turn IS off.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

revup67

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 626
  • Memories in the Making
    • View Profile
    • Revup67's Flickr Images
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2012, 01:25:08 PM »
I did the 100mm, 50mm the 24-105, the 16-35 and the 70mm only of the 70-300mm with the Canon 5D MK 3 and needed about 2 and a half hours.  I accidentally bumped the tripod ever so slightly while the camera asked for me to change the AFMA setting, I clciked OK at the software prompted and it immediately knew there was a change.  I got a prompt that basically said if you continue there's a chance there will be some inaccuracies. I knew that was due to the bumping so I began the test over.

I saw some folks commenting on the 50mm 1.4 . Though when I use the lens it appears to do a very good job however when I ran the software that was a different story.  See the attachment as it had recommended I AFMA adjust by 20 which is the max.  All other lenses I tested above fell between 0 and +/- 7 as I recall.

Another side note with the 5D MKIII.  When I set up the target I began getting the restore settings loop again.  I reviewed the recommendations in the guide and was certain I had everything correct but kept receiving a metering message.  I didn’t see anywhere in the guide about metering so left in on evaluative.  I then recalled in my previous tests the camera was put on Spot Metering by FoCal software.  Once I made this change FoCal was able to find the target and the Metering error and loop message went away and the target was found.  I've attached the results of the 50mm from yesterday's session for anyone that wants to gain further insight.  Lastly, all of the L lens I tested scored from 900-1100 note how this 1.4 dropped to roughly a score 455 at 1.4 on the Sharpness Test.  I've heard there are better lenses out there 3rd party than this 1.4 lens with roughly the same aperture.  I guess I need to keep in mind that this was a $350 lens #1 and #2 if I am pleased with the shots then its a moot point.  Has anyone out there ran Focal on a Canon 1.2 ?  Would not mind seeing that score sheet.
Thanks
Rev
Canon EOS 5D MK3 + EOS 7D » Canon50mm 1.4 » Canon 100mm IS USM L Macro » Canon 24-105 L USM IS » Canon 70-300 IS USM L» Canon MP-E65 » Canon 8-15mm Fisheye »Canon 16-35 Mkii USM L » Canon 200mm 2.8 L USM II » Canon 400mm 5.6 L » Canon 580EXII & MT 24EX Flash

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2012, 03:01:33 PM »
Thank you both for the time guidelines and pointers to do the testing. I won't have time today or tomorrow but possibly Monday.

That is a very cool report the software puts out. It is interesting that the shutter speed goes from 1/200 at 1.4 to 1 second at F22. That reinforces the comments about a sturdy floor and mirror lockup for these tests.

A quick question about the settings on the 5D3 - I have never MA'd a camera as I am coming from the 40D. Do I get a short and long MA reading for each lens? If so, if I test four focal lengths for a lens such as the 24-105, which suggested readings would I use? Or do you just average them out?

revup67

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 626
  • Memories in the Making
    • View Profile
    • Revup67's Flickr Images
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2012, 03:30:56 PM »
Quote
A quick question about the settings on the 5D3 - I have never MA'd a camera as I am coming from the 40D. Do I get a short and long MA reading for each lens? If so, if I test four focal lengths for a lens such as the 24-105, which suggested readings would I use? Or do you just average them out?

In the 5D it is listed as "Wide" and "Tele" when you mount a zoom.  So when you put on a zoom if you start on the widest angle Focal will know (we'll use the 16-35 here as an example) it is on 16.  I choose Fully Automatic in FoCal and it knows at that point as it walks its way through its processes you are going to be adjusting the WIDE portion only.  It will clearly state this as well.  When the test is done, I save my results, then go to the zoom and put it on 35 and begin the test again.  Then you will see it prompts you to change the TELE section on the 5D Mark III.  Normally these adjustments are done automatically but Rich at FoCal explained with the 5D Mark III you have to walk over to the camera, input the parameter, go back to the PC click OK then it will advance to the next step.  Careful not to bump the tripod or camera as Focal is quite sensitive.  I might suggest putting your Metering on Spot as well though ti doesn't say this in the instructions.  I kept getting a metering error until I did so..  Keep in mind when you finish with your tests go back to your menus on the Mark III and check everything as it didn't restore all of my settings correctly.  I even found my camera on JPG Small vs. RAW L where I had it.  Also I would run these tests of a Full battery.  Don't get caught in the middle and have the battery poop out though it does give warnings but also states a low battery may cause inconsistencies.
Thanks
Rev
Canon EOS 5D MK3 + EOS 7D » Canon50mm 1.4 » Canon 100mm IS USM L Macro » Canon 24-105 L USM IS » Canon 70-300 IS USM L» Canon MP-E65 » Canon 8-15mm Fisheye »Canon 16-35 Mkii USM L » Canon 200mm 2.8 L USM II » Canon 400mm 5.6 L » Canon 580EXII & MT 24EX Flash

bornshooter

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 703
  • Love L series glass
    • View Profile
    • my flickr
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2012, 05:10:51 PM »
what other methods do you recommend for afma?

RunAndGun

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2012, 07:12:58 PM »
FoCal assigns a numeric IQ(image quality) value to each AFMA value.  The higher the numeric IQ value, the better the IQ.  Has anyone else noticed that the recommended AFMA value is usually NOT the one with the highest numeric IQ value?

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13931
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2012, 07:54:19 PM »
A quick question about the settings on the 5D3 - I have never MA'd a camera as I am coming from the 40D. Do I get a short and long MA reading for each lens? If so, if I test four focal lengths for a lens such as the 24-105, which suggested readings would I use? Or do you just average them out?

With the 5DIII and 1D X, you can enter separate wide and tele values for zoom lenses (primes, and older bodies with AFMA, one value per lens).

I test at intermediate focal lengths, too, which lets me evaluate performance across the zoom range - I usually do a test for every 'x' of zoom, e.g. the 24-105 is a 4x lens, so I test the ends and two points in between (I 'cheat' on the 28-300, and only test 5 focal lengths for that 11x zoom).  Testing at 25x and 50x focal length distances helps me to adjust for the distances at which I shoot, and account for DoF at different distances.  It's more work - but picking a value is basically a compromise, since most people shoot at different distances and for zooms different focal lengths, and more data mean a better compromise.

An example: for the 24-105mm on my 1D X, I tested 24, 50, 85, and 105mm, each at 50x and 25x distance.  At 50x, the results were +2, +5, +3 and +2, respectively. At 25x, they were +4, +4, +4, and +2.  Had I done both ends at 50x as recommended, I'd have +2 for both.  I chose +4 for wide and +2 for tele, because of the +5/+4 at 50mm and because 50x distance at 24mm f/4 has a very deep DoF so I give more weight to the 25x value.

NOTE: at intermediate focal lengths on a zoom, the camera does a simple linear regression between the W and T values to determine the AFMA to apply.  If testing intermediate focal lengths, you should set both W and T to the AFMA value you're testing. 
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: FoCal Pro version 1.5 and the 5D Mark III
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2012, 08:02:10 PM »
Hey Neuro, In your impressive gear list you have Lens Align Pro - what made you switch to FoCal Pro instead?