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Author Topic: Canon EOS M System Announced  (Read 23291 times)

t.y.

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2012, 01:39:41 AM »
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2012, 01:39:41 AM »

akiskev

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2012, 02:34:07 AM »
From dpreview
Quote
The 3-10x electronic zoom first seen on the EOS 600D, but mysteriously missing from the EOS 650D, is also available - with minimal loss of quality at the 3x setting.
Aaaahhh Canon I see what you did there  ::) ::) ::)
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Mark1

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2012, 03:39:42 AM »
I've got to say that whilst I have no interest in the EOS-M body, I can appreciate that people like me are not Canon's main target audience.  My main concern with this launch is the lack of lenses announced with it.  My "hoped for" launch would have been:

  • two bodies: this one and higher end model;
  • three zooms: the EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (collapsible would have been nice), an EF-M 55-150mm(ish) f/4-5.6 IS STM and an 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM;
  • three primes: three fast pancake lenses.  I won't specify focal lengths or apertures, as we could all argue over this until the cows come home!

Of course, this would have been living in dreamland! In the real world, we might have hoped for

  • two bodies (camera companies seem to be more keen on bodies than lenses!)
  • two of the zooms
  • one or two primes

In reality, we got one body, one zoom and one prime, not exactly a solid commitment to the system from Canon! This wouldn't be a problem, except that they're the last to the party; we weren't even given a roadmap.  What incentive is there to invest into EOS-M when micro-4/3rds is now so well established, Sony are starting to look strong, Fuji are pitching to the enthusiast, and even Samsung have a pretty good lineup.  I certainly wouldn't buy into this system based upon EF lens compatability, because we all know they're mostly pretty unsuitable for mirrorless cameras (too big and with poor AF speed).  I'm sure that Canon had this in mind when they launched the new EF 18-135mm IS STM and 'shorty-forty', but I don't think they're anywhere near as compelling (for their target audiences) on EOS-M as they are on their native format. 

Canon have now shown the hand that many people have been waiting to see before they committed to a system.  That hand is pretty weak at the moment; they need to keep up the momentum as the EOS-M system currently risks fading into obscurity once the hype from the launch is over (like Nikon '1' has).  If they haven't got anything else (mirrorless) to show at Photokina, there are going to be a lot of people buying into rival systems.  If that happens, then Canon had best hope that mirrorless is a fad and not the future, or they will have truly blown their market position.

I would be surprised if they didn't announce more lenses in the next month or so and probably even another body. They'll drip feed this new system over the next few months and hog the limelight for all it's worth. This is just the beginning and Canon will have a mirrorless package to compliment your DSLR and you simply wont be able to resist going out and spending 1500 bucks.

Canon know our minds - they have mind control!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:43:20 AM by Mark1 »

traveller

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2012, 04:11:23 AM »
So it seems that a lot of people have been waiting for Canon to show its hand and they seem to like what they see:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/home-run-for-canon-eos-m-most-pre-ordered-camera-at-amazon/

Canon best hope that they're not EOS DSLR owners who feel they need a compatible body for their EF mount lenses:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-kipon-adpater-supports-electronid-control-of-eos-lenses-on-m43-and-nex/#comments

lipe

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2012, 04:22:07 AM »
can you imagine to mount this one EF 200 F2L

would be funny
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bbb34

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Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2012, 04:56:32 AM »
One day, when electronic viewfinders become more pleasant to use than optical viewfinders, DSLRs will go away, like twin-lens reflexes did long time ago.

Until then, I just love to use a DSLR for stills. Who cares about specs?    ;D

Yet, the later DSLRs already offer a lot of functions in live view only, or are more usable in live view: video, under water, on tripod,
or in the hands of people who are not used to OVF.
There, with the optical view finder off, the DSLRs loose their advantage.

I could imagine the EOS-M well as my next video and repro camera.



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ro_n

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2012, 05:49:40 AM »
After watching the Tech Radar video I think the AF performance of this "touch me to shoot" function cannot compete.
It took nearly 1 second to grab focus while this is achieved on e.g. a GF3 in max. 2 tenth of a second.

 I think the review was so boring it even bored the camera thats why it was so slow off the mark :P

You mean, for re-awakening from hibernate-S5 that was pretty fast?  ;D
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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2012, 05:49:40 AM »

Rodknee

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2012, 05:55:04 AM »
This costs more than a 650d so why would somebody buy it over the 650d other than size of which there seems to be a large choice out there of smaller cameras that are more competitively priced. A lot of posts talk about the glass being an important part of picture quality so 650d scores there, it also has a swivelling screen and a built in flash so scores there. I read that it has a 31 point AF system which could be a big advantage but why wouldn't Canon have put that in the 650d if it is the same sensor - I guess that will be in the 70d?

elflord

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2012, 06:31:30 AM »
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

Should be 1.6 (so that the 22mm would be an effective 35mm).

I'd expect that there would be a third party available adapter for FD (and pretty much every other mount) very soon, so you could skip FD to EF.  Stacking two adapters doesn't seem like the right solution here.

UrbanVoyeur

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2012, 08:47:58 AM »
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

Its a limitation that people learnt to deal with.
You're apologizing for a design failure. I prefer better designs, especially when the add on cost is trivial.


Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.
You're justifying and apologizing for a failure of Canon technology. Cannon is behind in sensor technology. they need to catch up.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 09:28:43 AM by UrbanVoyeur »

mb66energy

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2012, 09:47:30 AM »
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 09:50:51 AM by mb66energy »
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Canon-F1

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2012, 10:04:24 AM »
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 10:08:04 AM by Canon-F1 »
6D, 5D MK2, 7D, 550D... a lot of Glass.

itsnotmeyouknow

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2012, 12:38:54 PM »

Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.

At 18MP, you already need fairly decent glass to get a sharp image.  While the difference between 18MP and 24MP is academic, a 36MP APS-C sensor would need glass, the cost of which, entry level users could not justify.  Besides, how many 24x36" prints do most users make? - This isn't a camera designed to produce professional results.  I think a 18MP sensor is more than fit for purpose.  If you need higher IQ, then rather go full frame.

Not targeting you specifically, but in camera talk people often talk about IQ alongside mp.  MP has bearing over one thing only: maximum output size.  It by itself has little or nothing to do with image quality.  That is where the obsession with mp size has come from because people confuse resolution for quality.

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2012, 12:38:54 PM »

tntwit

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2012, 12:53:22 PM »
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.

Some of the comments here are of no surprises since at least some of the folks here are of the mindset that nothing less than a 5D III is even capable of taking pictures, so something along the lines of a mirrorless camera is nothing more than a paperweight in their minds.

It may not be for everyone, but it has it's place in the market.
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daniemare

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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2012, 01:24:03 PM »
Body looks fine

18-55 lens to big to fit into MY opinion of what a mirrorless camera should be.

Now if canon can come up with a retractible lens ala panasonic - then this might be an option.  The 22mm looks good
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Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2012, 01:24:03 PM »