Canon EOS M System Announced

[mb66energy]

Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.

I think you have mixed two things.

Leica lenses have been made for film which absorbs light just in the case that light hits the film under small angles. And they have used a mirrorless design for their 35mm film cameras. Microlenses in the center of the sensor are centered on their corresponding pixels but going to the edges of the sensor, microlenses are shifted towards the center to increase the amount of light which hits the sensor. This mainly avoids vignetting. So far I agree with your post.

I spoke about the REAR ELEMENT of the lens, meaning that the last element can be placed near the sensor. This doesn't mean that this lens element is small - look at the lens design of the EF-M 2.0 / 22:
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/ef-m/ef-m22-f2stm/spec.html
The rear element has a diameter of 25 mm (!!!) despite the aperture is just 11 mm. That means that the last element can direct the light nearly perpendicular onto the sensor for a large fraction of the sensor area. And that element is placed around 15mm from the image plane - never possible with a EOS 40D or 650D or whatsoever. Here the EF-M/CSC-concept helps - the MTFs on the same web page speak for themselves.

Best - Michael

[mb66energy]

I need video and this means I need a new camera body. After looking around about specs/infos about the EOS M system I see one really disgusting detail: roughly 250 shots with one battery charge (EOS 650D: 440, EOS 7D: 800) - this is not good especially for video. And price per battery is around 75$ !
If I buy that camera I see myself lugging around a EOS M with net adaptor for power supply, a 12V to 220V converter and a lead battery in the backpack 

The rest is acceptable if you use the EOS M + 22mm as high image quality compact and the EF-EOS M adapter for videography. One detail about the adaptor: 110 grams without tripod mount - the tripod mount is detached/attached with only one screw. That is good news if you want to remove the tripod mount for compactness - e.g. if you want use the EOS M with the EF-S 60mm or the EF 40mm.

[rpt]

So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too

I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5

Now you are tempting me again 
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?

[wickidwombat]

So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too

I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5

Now you are tempting me again 
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5103.0
Here is one I posted before shot with a 1d3 I just shoot manual using spot metering
I'll get some more recent shots and pop them up
I use tge 5d mk2 more now with it because it has the brightscreen which really helps

[bycostello]

any idea what the shutter lag is?

[martin982]

Im not sure if this has been mentioned before but I would have loved to have seen the 90ex hotshoe flash that comes with the camera to be radio controlled from the eos-m, so you could use it off camera in full ettl mode this would really bring a more proffessional look to your images and open up so many more possibilites for creative lighting  with a point and shoot!! just image a small light point and shoot camera in one hand and a tiny flash in the other, with reliable radio sync, it would be heaven.  I know the 90ex can be used as a master unit, and pretty much replaces the st-e2 unit, but it works on an unreliable optical system which is ancient technology! Plus you would need to carry around the eos-m the 90ex AND a flash gun that can work as a slave (430ex) then it doesnt make it very easy to carry around, which is the whole point surely. without this flash feature I cant really see the point of a seperate flash, they might aswell of put a pop up flash in there. Dont get me wrong I do love the look of the camera I would love it as my go everywhere camera but for the price I would have to think very long and hard about it.

Just my thoughts,

Martin

[AvTvM]

... just image a small light point and shoot camera in one hand and a tiny flash in the other, with reliable radio sync, it would be heaven. 

If the ET-E3-RT is fully functional in the EOS-M hotshoe it'll give you exactly what you want, and you even only need one hand for it. :-) 

[UrbanVoyeur]

How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

[AvTvM]

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 
I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.
Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.
Canon needs help.

+1
fully agree.
Especially for the intended target group "P&S upgraders" - the EOS-M should have WiFi and GPS built in.   

[mb66energy]

[...]

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

I haven't yet used the EOS M camera/system but if
  - it delivers very good image quality
  - the user interface is at least usable
it might be the high IQ compact for those with existing EF and EF-S lenses. I expect a price of roughly 650 Euro in germany with EF adaptor (100 EUR less than 650D body only).

Uses:
  - Camera always in the backpack with 2.8/40
  - Macro
  - intelligent rear cap for seldomly used 10-22mm (easily fits in a lens compartment of any photo luggage)
  - video (I need 3x software zoom for some video sequences, yes, I need 1800mm equiv focal length!)

I see some applications of the EOS M for serious photography. And I am not shure if Canon needs (our?) help.

Best - Michael

[tntwit]

How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.

[AvTvM]

Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.

If you follow this and other forums closely enought, you know, that it is only a small minority of "high-end DSLR users" that is against articulated displays and pop-up flashes.

The vast majority of photographers recognizes the immense benefits of those 2 items in any digital camera.

Looking at the intended target group of "consumers, P&S upgraders", Canon made a major mistake to not include the following items in the EOS-M:
* pop-up flash
* fully articulated screen
* WiFi and GPS
* "Direct Facebook Button"

Inclusion of these features would have made the EOS-M the clear "king of consumer-grade compact system cameras". Instead, the EOS-M is still "lacking" in some ways ... just like all other CSCs currently on the market ... but more expensive than most. This will limit sales and keep Canon from reaching a commanding market position in the CSC segment any time soon. 

[UrbanVoyeur]

Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.

Canon apologists will always justify whatever Canon does.  I make constant use of articulating screens when I have one.  To make the GX with an articulating screen (which I own) and M without one is silly. Making the S100 with GPS and the M without is equally stupid.

And lately, for me, Canon has done very little right in my book.

[UrbanVoyeur]

Looking at the intended target group of "consumers, P&S upgraders", Canon made a major mistake to not include the following items in the EOS-M:
* pop-up flash
* fully articulated screen
* WiFi and GPS
* "Direct Facebook Button"

Inclusion of these features would have made the EOS-M the clear "king of consumer-grade compact system cameras". Instead, the EOS-M is still "lacking" in some ways ... just like all other CSCs currently on the market ... but more expensive than most. This will limit sales and keep Canon from reaching a commanding market position in the CSC segment any time soon.

+1
I wholeheartedly agree!

[JoeDavid]

Looks like Fujifilm has announced the mirrorless camera with the features that I'd have liked Canon to include (mainly an EVF, built-in flash plus hotshoe...).  Check out the E-X1 instead of the X1 Pro.  If Canon had produced that camera with the option of using my EOS lenses through an adapter, I'd have pre-ordered one.  The EOS-M is nothing I'd consider...