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Author Topic: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?  (Read 11802 times)

Canon-F1

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could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« on: July 23, 2012, 09:22:23 AM »
maybe a stupid question but could the new mount be used for FF sensor mirrorless cameras too?

i guess with current lenses the image circle fits only for aps-c.
but could it possible to use it for other lenses and a FF sensor.

i only wonder if canon thinks about the future here.
or if a future mirrorless FF camera would have a new lens mount again.





« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 09:36:38 AM by Canon-F1 »

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could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« on: July 23, 2012, 09:22:23 AM »

Stephen Melvin

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 09:50:57 AM »
I can see no reason that it wouldn't support a FF sensor. After all, the mount is a full EF mount diameter. If anything, it's massively oversized for the camera.

x-vision

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 09:58:24 AM »
If you look at the position of the contact pins, the new M lens mount will not be able to support a FF sensor.

And if you consider that this is a brand new mount - and Canon did not make it FF compatible - it is very safe to say that Canon is not planning to put a FF sensor in the M series ... ever.

The M-series is obviously meant as a bridge camera between compacts and DSLRs.
If Canon ever makes a compact FF camera, it will surely user the EF mount.

Canon-F1

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »
If you look at the position of the contact pins, the new M lens mount will not be able to support a FF sensor.


but what has the contact pin layout to do with the sensor size?

edit:

you mean there is not enough room for a FF sensor?
mhm.. yes it looks that way.

im really no expert when it comes to mounts.


« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 10:20:40 AM by Canon-F1 »

x-vision

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 10:20:41 AM »
you mean there is not enough room for a FF sensor?

Yes. Take a look - a FF sensor will covered/obscured by the pin base:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 10:22:42 AM by x-vision »

Canon-F1

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 10:22:24 AM »
so no leica killer with an EF-M mount ;)

TrumpetPower!

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 10:49:47 AM »
so no leica killer with an EF-M mount ;)

Eh, you've already got that, basically. Slap a Shorty McForty to a 5DIII and you're pretty much there. As far as image / camera quality, it blows the Leica out of the water, though, granted, it's a little bit bigger. As a bonus, you can mount pretty much any lens ever made to it, too, including all that sweet sweet Canon glass (like the TS-E 24 II or the 400 f/2.8 II) as well as all the legendary Leica and Zeiss lenses.

Cheers,

b&

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 10:49:47 AM »

Canon-F1

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 11:47:05 AM »
Eh, you've already got that, basically. Slap a Shorty McForty to a 5DIII and you're pretty much there. As far as image / camera quality, it blows the Leica out of the water, though, granted, it's a little bit bigger.

remove the "little bit" and i agree.  ;)

but still the leica is way better for street photography.


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8t5zxkUtf1qccbcn.jpg


Nassen0f

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 11:54:17 AM »
If you look at the position of the contact pins, the new M lens mount will not be able to support a FF sensor.

And if you consider that this is a brand new mount - and Canon did not make it FF compatible - it is very safe to say that Canon is not planning to put a FF sensor in the M series ... ever.

The M-series is obviously meant as a bridge camera between compacts and DSLRs.
If Canon ever makes a compact FF camera, it will surely user the EF mount.

Im guessing/hoping thats why we have the 40mm STM pancake already..

TrumpetPower!

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 12:29:45 PM »
Eh, you've already got that, basically. Slap a Shorty McForty to a 5DIII and you're pretty much there. As far as image / camera quality, it blows the Leica out of the water, though, granted, it's a little bit bigger.

remove the "little bit" and i agree.  ;)

but still the leica is way better for street photography.


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8t5zxkUtf1qccbcn.jpg

Well, that picture is hardly a fair comparison.

Take the longish zoom off the Canon and put on the Shorty McForty instead, and now the Canon actually sticks out less far from the tip of your nose than the Leica. The Canon is still a bit taller, but the only part of the body that's thicker is the handgrip.

The only reason the 5D series has a reputation for being substantially bigger than a rangefinder is because all the comparisons are made with a normal slow prime on the rangefinder and a fast wide-to-telephoto zoom on the 5D. Mount similar lenses on each, and the size difference is more of a shape difference than anything else -- and the shape of the 5D makes it fit the hand better. (What, you don't think Canon could remove the right-side grip if they thought that was a problem?)

Cheers,

b&

Canon-F1

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »

Take the longish zoom off the Canon and put on the Shorty McForty instead....
....
The only reason the 5D series has a reputation for being substantially bigger than a rangefinder is because all the comparisons are made with a normal slow prime on the rangefinder and a fast wide-to-telephoto zoom on the 5D. Mount similar lenses on each, and the size difference is more of a shape difference than anything else -- and the shape of the 5D makes it fit the hand better.

it´s a 35mm f2 on the leica and a 35mm f1.4 on the 5d mk2.
no longish zoom. :)

a 35mm f2 would make things look a bit better for the 5D MK2 sure.. but not much.
walk a day with a leica and a day with a 5D MK2 through a city.   ;)

it´s not only size.
the leica is less obtrusive (at least to the normal non-photographer crowd).



« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:15:22 PM by Canon-F1 »

funkboy

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 01:23:04 PM »
maybe a stupid question but could the new mount be used for FF sensor mirrorless cameras too?

(answered the same question earlier today)
From http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-m/:



Quote
The EF-M mount is 58mm in diameter, with a flange distance of 18mm from the bayonet to the sensor. As the image above clearly shows it's matched specifically to the APS-C sensor size. So don't expect a future full frame EF-M mount camera - it's not going to happen.

Sorry to rain on your parade...

OTOH, the EF-M flange-back distance is the same as Sony E mount, so there'll be a whole slew of adapters to mount all kinds of tasty old-school lenses to it.

Now that I revisit this topic, there are a few reasons they've done it this way:

  • They needed to make the camera, mount, & lenses as small & light as possible.
  • They want all of these cameras to work with EF & EF-S lenses.
  • The kind of photogs that want FF also tend to want top-notch AF, and mirrorless systems seem to be a long way from delivering that right now (though it looks like EF-M should be quite good for a mirrorless).
  • When Leica made a full-frame camera (the M9) with such a short flange-back distance, they had to get Kodak to design a sensor for them with incrementally offset microlens positioning towards the edges in order to properly capture the photons that are hitting the sensor at an extreme angle towards the edge of the frame.  I don't think Canon wants to go there (although admittedly they could probably buy the patent off Kodak for peanuts at the moment...).

TrumpetPower!

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 03:12:12 PM »

Take the longish zoom off the Canon and put on the Shorty McForty instead....
....
The only reason the 5D series has a reputation for being substantially bigger than a rangefinder is because all the comparisons are made with a normal slow prime on the rangefinder and a fast wide-to-telephoto zoom on the 5D. Mount similar lenses on each, and the size difference is more of a shape difference than anything else -- and the shape of the 5D makes it fit the hand better.

it´s a 35mm f2 on the leica and a 35mm f1.4 on the 5d mk2.
no longish zoom. :)

Eh, sorry. Looked like a 24-105 at first.

But, again. An f/1.4 lens has an aperture twice the size as an f/2 lens, so is it any surprise that it's also substantially bigger?

Canon's own 35 f/2 is certainly no bigger than the Leica version, and looks to be a bit smaller. Of course, Canon's f/2 is a cheapie consumer lens while the f/1.4 is their no-holds-barred lens...but, if you want no-holds-barred quality in a small, light, cheap package, then that's what the Shorty McForty is all about.

Quote
a 35mm f2 would make things look a bit better for the 5D MK2 sure.. but not much.
walk a day with a leica and a day with a 5D MK2 through a city.   ;)

it´s not only size.
the leica is less obtrusive (at least to the normal non-photographer crowd).

You do know that that type of distinction exists solely in your own head, don't you? Anything that isn't instantly recognizable as a P&S zoom or a camera phone is going to identify you as a photographer, and something that looks like a retro antique (the Leica) is going to make you stand out every bit at much as something big with a red ring that you hold up to your eye.

The 5DIII with the Shorty McForty, on the other hand, just looks like a slightly oversized PowerShot G-series-style camera, especially if you use Live View. It'll only draw attention from other photographers, not the general public.

Cheers,

b&

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 03:12:12 PM »

Ricku

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 03:37:37 PM »
If you look at the position of the contact pins, the new M lens mount will not be able to support a FF sensor.
Well thats it then. All hope is lost.

If what you say is true, Canon F**ked up big time. They closed the door on all who wants an affordable full frame mirrorless. Well, at least more affordable than the Leica M9.


Gothmoth

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 03:58:33 PM »
Eh, sorry. Looked like a 24-105 at first.


nope it does not :)

Quote
But, again. An f/1.4 lens has an aperture twice the size as an f/2 lens, so is it any surprise that it's also substantially bigger?


he wrote that a EF 35mm f2 would make it look a bit better for the 5D.
but the body is still larger.

and the 35mm f1.4 summilux is not that much bigger then the f2 summicron mounted on the leica in the picture.

 
Quote
You do know that that type of distinction exists solely in your own head, don't you?

i guess that´s why so many professionell photographers LOVE the leicas for street portraiture.
they all don´t know what they are doing.   :D

have you ever used a leica?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 04:09:38 PM by Gothmoth »

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Re: could the new EF-M mount support FF sensors too?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 03:58:33 PM »