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Author Topic: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS  (Read 23039 times)

RC

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2012, 11:04:31 AM »
...
I think that 70D gets swivel screen with touch, new sensor with phase AF, 6-8 fps (depends on how 7D Mk II specs would be like) and better AF (probably from 7D). 7D Mk II could have same sensor as 70D with 61-point AF, 10 fps, mag-alloy body with fixed screen.

From my point of view, Canon:
  • needs true replacement for 5D Mk II as FF for enthusiasts
  • price it similarly to 5D Mk II - so around 2000 USD
  • should make it like "more then 5D Mk II" but "less then 5D Mk III" - less fps (around 4), smaller buffer, lower ISO range (to 51200/102 400 as max expanded) etc - basicly not to cut form 7D and 5D Mk III sales
  • should make it with better AF then 5D Mk II but not 61-point - 7D-like AF or 31-point with 9 cross-type
  • should make it from mag-alloy with some sort of sealing - 5D Mk II-like
This kind of body should give them enough difference from 7D and 5D Mk III. Some of current 5D Mk II users might upgrade, some of 7D users would like it as a second body, some of 5D Mk III could buy it as a backup, it would attract 60D/xxxD and xxxxD users. For me - winner for Canon.
...
This does make a lot of sense, and I sure hope you are correct

It's really not a budget thing but I simply can't justify myself spending this kind of money on a camera. I'm just a entusiast, not even a semi-pro.
I'm in the same boat.  Yes, technically I can fork out the bucks for a 5D3 but I really don't have that kind of money to justify such an expense.  I'm very much hoping this new FF will meet my specs.

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2012, 11:04:31 AM »

mathino

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2012, 11:12:57 AM »
This is what I'm talking about. A 5D Mark IIN. They can't go wrong with this type of camera. Price it around 2000 €.

Yep, but I dont mind how they call it (9D,8D,6D,5D-E,...)  ;) They just cant go wrong with it.

I think that Canon is sending/would send quiet clear message:
  • Want good high ISO, FF, good AF, partially sealed body for 2000 USD ? - get entry FF
  • Want speed (fps), reach, good AF and ws body ? - get 7D (7D Mk II in future)
  • Want top AF, good high ISO and decent speed ? - get 5D Mk III
  • Want good high ISO, good AF, high fps ? - get entry FF and 7D (7D Mk II in future)
  • Want top AF, best ISO, best sealing, fastest body - all in one ? - get 1D-X
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 11:30:18 AM by mathino »
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mathino

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2012, 11:25:22 AM »
Quote
...
I think that 70D gets swivel screen with touch, new sensor with phase AF, 6-8 fps (depends on how 7D Mk II specs would be like) and better AF (probably from 7D). 7D Mk II could have same sensor as 70D with 61-point AF, 10 fps, mag-alloy body with fixed screen.

From my point of view, Canon:
  • needs true replacement for 5D Mk II as FF for enthusiasts
  • price it similarly to 5D Mk II - so around 2000 USD
  • should make it like "more then 5D Mk II" but "less then 5D Mk III" - less fps (around 4), smaller buffer, lower ISO range (to 51200/102 400 as max expanded) etc - basicly not to cut form 7D and 5D Mk III sales
  • should make it with better AF then 5D Mk II but not 61-point - 7D-like AF or 31-point with 9 cross-type
  • should make it from mag-alloy with some sort of sealing - 5D Mk II-like
This kind of body should give them enough difference from 7D and 5D Mk III. Some of current 5D Mk II users might upgrade, some of 7D users would like it as a second body, some of 5D Mk III could buy it as a backup, it would attract 60D/xxxD and xxxxD users. For me - winner for Canon.
...
Quote
This does make a lot of sense, and I sure hope you are correct

Ive been thinking of what makes the best sense for Canon and what would attract the widest possible range of customers. By my thinking it would be a clear winner for them. But next couple of week should tell us if Im right...or close enough.

Quote
I'm in the same boat.  Yes, technically I can fork out the bucks for a 5D3 but I really don't have that kind of money to justify such an expense.  I'm very much hoping this new FF will meet my specs.

...a lot of us here feels the same. Yes, I have enough money to buy 5D Mk III but I wont...simply because its more then I can justify/accept (3100 € here) for a body. I would rather buy some lens for the difference. So...Canon will get my money one or the other way.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 11:28:29 AM by mathino »
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samirachiko

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #108 on: July 29, 2012, 09:41:05 AM »
As for now Canon does not implement flip screen into thougher and (at least partially) sealed bodies (1D, 7D and 5D series).

As Marsu42 has already said "The 7d was released before Canon had *any* bodies with swivel screen, so the reason might be completely different."

A swivel screen can be one of the features that can make a difference with a 5D MK3!

mathino

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2012, 01:27:59 PM »
As for now Canon does not implement flip screen into thougher and (at least partially) sealed bodies (1D, 7D and 5D series).


As Marsu42 has already said "The 7d was released before Canon had *any* bodies with swivel screen, so the reason might be completely different."

A swivel screen can be one of the features that can make a difference with a 5D MK3!


Well, all I stated before was according to original post (Design closer to 7D than 5D3 (smaller and with flash)). I assume that it could be something like 7D/5D Mk II in terms of design - they both have buttons on the left and fixed screen. Many of users that came in contact with 7D/5D Mk II would agree that this placement of buttons is better - you can make adjustments (presets, menu etc) with both hands. On 60 D you need to use only your thumb to do everything.

Heh, and I can remember situation after 60D release: "This is a plastic body ?! No more magnesium alloy like 50D had ?! No more AFMA ?!". And yes, I can see same situation happening now. And I remeber that many users complained about center multiple-way "thing" - quiet though and difficult to press.

...I guess we will see soon. Like always, there are two groups of users - one want 7D-like body, mag-alloy, sealed - other want swivel screen  ;D


EDIT: Dont you nowdays have a possibility to attach external LCD via HDMI (better resolition, bigger, better for precise focusing) ? You can get 7" LCD for +- 180 USD (which is not so much).

...or you can get this:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/8189/an-affordable-articulated-screen-with-peaking-for-the-5d-mark-iii-the-swivi-usa
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 06:15:21 PM by mathino »
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Marsu42

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #110 on: July 30, 2012, 05:47:14 AM »
Heh, and I can remember situation after 60D release: "This is a plastic body ?! No more magnesium alloy like 50D had ?! No more AFMA ?!". And yes, I can see same situation happening now.

My 2 cents concerning a metal body: I was determined to get one, but then the 60d was released an I bought it anyway. Today, I have to say I don't quite understand what a metal body should be for except for peace of mind - if you drop your camera, the body is the last thing to split, before that it's much more likely your lens, top or rear lcd will be broken.

Not that I wouldn't want a metal body, but the comparable Nikon d7000 has a "fake" metal body only on the rear, too. And plastic can be pretty sturdy, too - it just depends on how it's made, so "metal" imho is rather a marketing issue.

A swivel screen can be one of the features that can make a difference with a 5D MK3!

+1 for swivel screen ... just because old-school photogs seem to think it cannot be "pr0", so Canon marketing would be wise to mark the 6d as an "amateur" body with it.

+1 for button redesign - maybe the 6d will get a multicontroller and no joystick like the 60d to dumb it down and make a usability difference to the 5d line.

-1 for built-in flash ... the ff prism is rather large, Canon never added a flash (unlike Nikon). And because they switched to radio flash, the master feature of a built-in flash is not needed anymore.

tron

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2012, 07:05:13 AM »
You can say I am pessimistic but I bet that in the new entry level FF there will be at least one feature that will be worse than 5Dmk2.
Now whether this will be important or not to potential buyers is a totally different matter. If I were to guess I would say non-replaceable screen and/or plastic body...

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2012, 07:05:13 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #112 on: July 31, 2012, 06:36:39 AM »
as a long-time Canon-buyer and follower of news, i have learnt to expect the bare minimum. I therefore predict:

* EOS6D
   entry level FF, 5D3 sensor, 7D AF, body 7D-ish, including pop-up flash; MSRP @launch: USD/€ 2700

* EOS7D II
   new 21-24 MP APS-C sensor (what else!), same AF, same body, minor improvements elsewhere, mostly in video crap, if they really go overboard, we MIGHT get a built-in radio-flash commander; still no WiFi, no GPS; MSRP at launch: USD/€ 2200

* EOS 70D
   same new 24MP sensor as 7D II, AF almost unchanged from 60D, articulated LCD, some minor improvements, mainly video crap; pop-up flash, NO radio controller, no WiFi, no GPS; MSRP @launch: USD/€ 1400
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 07:32:51 AM by AvTvM »

Jason Beiko

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #113 on: July 31, 2012, 07:04:29 AM »
I think your bang on about your future camera predictions....

ecka

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #114 on: July 31, 2012, 09:26:33 AM »
as a long-time Canon-buyer and follower of news, i have learnt to expect the bare minimum. I therefore predict:

* EOS6D
   entry level FF, 5D3 sensor, 7D AF, body 7D-ish, including pop-up flash; MSRP @launch: USD/€ 2700

* EOS7D II
   new 21-24 MP APS-C sensor (what else!), same AF, same body, minor improvements elsewhere, mostly in video crap, if they really go overboard, we MIGHT get a built-in radio-flash commander; still no WiFi, no GPS; MSRP at launch: USD/€ 2200

* EOS 70D
   same new 24MP sensor as 7D II, AF almost unchanged from 60D, articulated LCD, some minor improvements, mainly video crap; pop-up flash, NO radio controller, no WiFi, no GPS; MSRP @launch: USD/€ 1400

How about ...
* EOS6D
   lower class FF (I'm sorry, but "entry level" sounds ridiculous :) ); 7D AF; not sure about pop-up flash, even if it wasn't a smaller than 5D body (like many are expecting), a pop-up flash on top of the huge pentaprism would make it look as bad as a D700 :D and even worse if it was a smaller body. However, it would be nice to have for occasional wireless flash control. MSRP $2500 (+ 5D2 must be discontinued, because it would be even more "entry level" than the 6D, with it's current ~$2000-2100 retail price)

* EOS7D II
   new APS-C sensor (that's for sure ;), just leave the hybrids for Rebels and mirrorless); 5D3 AF, why not? It's a high-end APS-C camera after all. If not, then nikon D400 will just destroy it...  MSRP $2000

* EOS 70D
   same new APS-C sensor from 7D II; 7D (I) AF (Rebel gets the 60D AF); 60D'ish body; 650D's vari-angle touchscreen LCD; MSRP $1200

EXIT LEVEL = Medium Format = costs a fortune
PRO = 1D = $6800
HIGH FF = 5D3 = $3500
MID FF = 6D = $2500
HIGH APS-C = 7d2 = $2000
HIGH APS-C = 7d = $1700
MID APS-C = 70D = $1200
MID APS-C = 60D = $1000
COSUMER = T4i/650D = $800
ENTRY LEVEL = T3/1100D = $500
FF + primes !

sick_666

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »
i need buy a new camera, 7d or wait 4 new 7d2? (i need know when new 7d2 come out!


DJL329

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2012, 03:03:49 PM »
i need buy a new camera, 7d or wait 4 new 7d2? (i need know when new 7d2 come out!

Perhaps they could post the following line on the banner:  "If you need it now, buy it now."   ::)

I don't recall any 7D2 rumors, and with the announced major firmware upgrade for the 7D due, it's probably at least a couple of months away.  Might not even get announced until next year.  Nobody really knows, yet.
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mathino

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #117 on: July 31, 2012, 03:09:30 PM »
i need buy a new camera, 7d or wait 4 new 7d2? (i need know when new 7d2 come out!

All points to 7D Mk II to be announced rather next year then in 2012. We hear mostly of "lower class" FF and high MPx FF to be announced this year. My bet for APS-C replacement is for 60D. But...I might be wrong. Well, you can wait for Photokina and see for yourself what comes out.  Even IF 7D Mk II comes out - it will be priced higher then current one with some specs updated (so new pricing could lead you to buying 7D anyway). Its your call now. If you were in the market for FF upgrade I would say hold and see what comes...but with 7D I would not be that certain about waiting...
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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #117 on: July 31, 2012, 03:09:30 PM »

marekjoz

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #118 on: July 31, 2012, 03:18:23 PM »
i need buy a new camera, 7d or wait 4 new 7d2? (i need know when new 7d2 come out!

Perhaps they could post the following line on the banner:  "If you need it now, buy it now."   ::)

I don't recall any 7D2 rumors, and with the announced major firmware upgrade for the 7D due, it's probably at least a couple of months away.  Might not even get announced until next year.  Nobody really knows, yet.

Chuck might already know... :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 03:21:33 PM by marekjoz »
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rocketdesigner

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #119 on: July 31, 2012, 10:24:49 PM »
An HDSLR video user's wish list for this new FF:

1) On Screen Audio Levels / Level Control (This should be doable)
2) Headphone Jack (I doubt there will be a headphone jack)
3) No Moire/Jello in Video Mode (?)
4) Price Tag $1999

Question for the experts: With a digic 5 processor, does that mean no moire or jello issues in video mode like the mkIII?

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Re: Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS
« Reply #119 on: July 31, 2012, 10:24:49 PM »