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Author Topic: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera  (Read 5528 times)

aceofspaide

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5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« on: July 27, 2012, 10:48:05 AM »
I am a young pro cameraman (mostly documentary) who has earned enough money that I would feel comfortable upgrading from my personal camera from a T2i to a FF camera. So my decision is, do I buy a 5D II right now or do I wait until Canon announces their new entry level FF camera. It seems like the price will be about the same so I am torn. My usage of this camera will be 75% video, but I also do some side photography. I need to start compiling some pros and cons because at this point in my life dropping $2K is a pretty big deal.

I'm sure it would be best to wait for the official announcement of the new FF camera before I make my decision, but I am impatient and if the answer if the 5DII I want to get it right away.

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5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« on: July 27, 2012, 10:48:05 AM »

JasonATL

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 11:02:46 AM »
The obvious (and best, I think) answer is to wait, since you're asking people to compare a 5D2 with an unknown.

I'm considering the same thing. Of course, you might be in a much more time-sensitive position than I. Fact is, I don't NEED a new camera.

But, in the sport of these types of discussions, I'll give you some thoughts that I've considered.

Do you use Magic Lantern?

Key argument for me in favor of 5D2: If you use Magic Lantern and rely on its peaking and histogram functions in video a lot (and perhaps its timelapse and myriad other functions), then I think this argues in favor of the 5D2. Magic Lantern is available for the 5D2 today and is unlikely to be available for the new camera, if at all, for another year (just speculating here) after release. Some might say to wait to see if Canon puts any of these features on the new camera. I simply don't see that happening, given Canon's track record.

Do you struggle against moire/aliasing, or have you adapted your shooting style to minimize it to an acceptable level for you?

Key argument for waiting: The new FF camera MIGHT have some of the improvements of the 5D3 with regard to moire/aliasing. My wife has a 5D3 that she lets me use from time to time. The lack of moire/aliasing is really nice and the image is nice to work with in post. This is the only thing that has really caused me to wait, other than simply not wanting to spend more money on a camera. Then again, you might wait and find the new camera's image is essentially the same as the 5D2. It isn't clear that anything will be lost, since the price is rumored to be about the same as the current 5D2 and there are so many 5D2's out there that you should be able to pick one up used, should the new FF lack some features that you really want/need.

Heck the new FF camera MIGHT even have more apparent sharpness or resolution than the 5D3. But, I find this possibility far less likely. If it did, Canon would have a hard time keeping them on the shelf.

aceofspaide

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 11:12:11 AM »
I am not in a time sensitive position, I do not need this camera for work because my company has their own pro camcorders and a 7D that I use for professional shooting, I am just impatient and would love to have a new camera in my hands this summer. I do have the T2i also in case I need to do any side jobs.

Your Magic Lantern point is one I thought about a lot, I currently have never used it but I am definitely planning on getting the new version in August for my T2i to try it out. That may effect my decision because if I decide ML is something I can't live without then it will be the 5DII for me.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 12:28:35 PM »
gh2 is the best v-dslr for the money. I had a 5dII, and there are a couple of things it does better than the gh2, but overall the gh2 is a better camera for video, and a whole lot cheaper.

aceofspaide

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 12:47:38 PM »
gh2 is the best v-dslr for the money. I had a 5dII, and there are a couple of things it does better than the gh2, but overall the gh2 is a better camera for video, and a whole lot cheaper.

I'm definitely sticking with Canon since I have spent a lot on canon lenses. Plus I am really only looking for a FF camera

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 01:54:11 PM »
I'm definitely sticking with Canon since I have spent a lot on canon lenses. Plus I am really only looking for a FF camera

EF lenses? You can always buy an adapter. As far as the full-frame look, that is understandable. But you take a serious hit on the detail captured by the internal codec in the 5Dii compared to the gh2.  The 5dii will give you much better low-light performance though.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:02:59 PM by HurtinMinorKey »

aceofspaide

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 04:13:23 PM »
I'm definitely sticking with Canon since I have spent a lot on canon lenses. Plus I am really only looking for a FF camera

EF lenses? You can always buy an adapter. As far as the full-frame look, that is understandable. But you take a serious hit on the detail captured by the internal codec in the 5Dii compared to the gh2.  The 5dii will give you much better low-light performance though.

I have only EF lenses, btw what is the effect of using EF lenses on a FF camera? I've never had one so I haven't had this experience yet.

The other thing is that I am planning on using the camera for some photography as well and I assume the gh2 doesn't stack up against either of these Canon FF cameras.


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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 04:13:23 PM »

brad-man

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 04:53:56 PM »
EF lenses will work on any modern Canon SLR camera. It is the EF-S lenses (white dot instead of red) that are restricted to APS-C sensor cameras...

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 05:07:21 PM »
The other thing is that I am planning on using the camera for some photography as well and I assume the gh2 doesn't stack up against either of these Canon FF cameras.

For still photography the 5d2 is vastly superior.

Tiedtke

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 08:53:53 PM »
I am a young pro cameraman (mostly documentary) who has earned enough money that I would feel comfortable upgrading from my personal camera from a T2i to a FF camera. So my decision is, do I buy a 5D II right now or do I wait until Canon announces their new entry level FF camera. It seems like the price will be about the same so I am torn. My usage of this camera will be 75% video, but I also do some side photography. I need to start compiling some pros and cons because at this point in my life dropping $2K is a pretty big deal.

I'm sure it would be best to wait for the official announcement of the new FF camera before I make my decision, but I am impatient and if the answer if the 5DII I want to get it right away.

This sounds like it was me who wrote it... XD I'm in the exact same position..

kennephoto

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 10:59:32 PM »
Funny, I'm feeling the same way as well! I'm glad that I will be able to have a full frame option instead of just 5d3 and a soon to be discontinued. Might be nice to have full frame options since theres many apsc options! And thanks for starting this thread so I didn't have to hehe!
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syder

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2012, 04:44:08 AM »
I had a 5dII, and there are a couple of things it does better than the gh2, but overall the gh2 is a better camera for video, and a whole lot cheaper.

Really? For filming what exactly? Landscapes... then maybe. In which case why use an slr at all? The only advantage the gh2 has over the 5diii is resolution - which is a non-issue for 98% of what you should be doing with DSLR video. I guess it has autofocus, but the OP said he was a pro cameraman, in which case there is no way he should be using that as a feature (in 10 years of working as a cameraman and teaching cinematography at a university I don't think I've ever used autofocus, i certainly teach students never to use it). It might be useful for filming your kids, but professionals can pull focus.

For low light, colour, and aesthetics the 5diii is in a different league to the gh2. There's a reason that films like the Avengers used Canon DSLR's rather than GH2s to compliment the Alexa footage. Clients love the fact that it looks a lot like film. Rather than the the video-tastic GH2.

Marsu42

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 04:59:12 AM »
Your Magic Lantern point is one I thought about a lot, I currently have never used it but I am definitely planning on getting the new version in August for my T2i to try it out. That may effect my decision because if I decide ML is something I can't live without then it will be the 5DII for me.

+1 ...

Video = 5d2 because it runs magic lantern. Unless you're very concerned with occasional aliasing (fixed on the 5d3) or have to have a swivel screen (rumored on the new entry ff). The hdr video functionality alone of ml is priceless, and the stable v2.3 is out now if you donate some bucks to Alex. You can afford that if you're shopping for a 5d2, can't you :-p ?

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 04:59:12 AM »

papa-razzi

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 06:49:49 PM »
If a new entry level FF comes out with similar IQ to 5DII, better AF, swivel screen, pop up flash, perhaps not as solid in build quality for $2,000 USD, and the 5DII is discontinued .....

What happens to the price of the 5DII on the used market?

If it drops to $1,500 or less, it might be worth waiting even to get a 5DII.

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paul13walnut5

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 07:30:25 PM »
You have a T2i and a 7D at your disposal.  There is no reason not to wait...

You mention you already have canon lenses, are they all EF full frame lenses?  EF-s will not mount or operate on a 5D2 or any likely full frame camera to come.

The 5D2 is a great proven work horse, but it is three year old tech now.  It's not obselete, but if you want to run the camera for at least a couple of years, then before long it's five year old, six year old tech.

Things like the 4GB barrier have been broken, headphone socket added, bit rate and temporal GOP patterns have more control.  Even if image quality hasn't praticularly jumped on.

In short, it would probably make more sense to go to a camera with the newer better video tech.

Finally I would also say that I prefer shooting on a cropped sensor to a full frame, focusing is that tiny bit less critical and the cropped sensor canons stand up a little more to pans before the wobble kicks in.

The T2i is a perfectly decent camera, I don't know how much a 5D2 would really add to the party...  in video terms at least.   I would be looking up the food chain a bit, or see what any new models bring - headphone socket, all-i and longer record times are not as exciting headline features as megapixels and AF patterns, but for the video guy or gal they are features that are worth holding out for.   You already have access to and own good video cameras on a par with a 5D2.

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Re: 5D II or wait for new entry level FF camera
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 07:30:25 PM »