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Author Topic: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]  (Read 35529 times)

Bob Howland

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2012, 04:44:21 PM »
I know the product isn't out there yet but, it's a shame how Canon holds back on what their loyal buyers want when they (Canon) knows what is wanted. 

They claim one body is a flagship (1DX), holding out on what another body has (5DMK3) only to give their fan base what they originally asked for (more megapixels) shortly afterwards. You cant tell me they didn't plan on a higher MP body announcement after 1DX & MK3 sales peak.

I also know that Canon didn't force anyone to buy either one of those bodies ... but lets face it ... Canon plays games with those who keep them competitive in a world of serious competition.

If I were to stop at a Kool-aid stand & buy a hot, watered down glass of Kool-aid from a little kid, only to have them pull out a fresh/cold picture from under the stand afterwards .... that would piss me off!  >:(

What Kool-aid are you drinking?  The fan base, for years now has been asking for what they got in the mk3 - better AF, better performance at high ISO, and better ISO range - its pretty much exactly what the mk3 is.  The whining about only started when people heard about the d800.  And now there is this vocal segment who twist history to be what it isn't.  Nikon rolled the dice and put their big MP camera out before canon did. 

Yep, that's pretty much what happened. And, as the owner of both an EOS-3 film camera and 5D MkIII DSLR, I consider the latter to be the true and worthy successor to the former. But, then again, I never got the Eye Control Focus to work on the EOS-3 so I'm not counting that.

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2012, 04:44:21 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2012, 04:52:26 PM »
we don't need nor want a 40 mp camera (at least canon would be smart enough to give it sRAW and mRAW so we aren't stuck with 100 MB images.


Not that the resolution makes that much difference; otoh the x-sync up to 1/320 and  high rez/off center spot metering meter are endearing.
That battery pack that powers the strobes gets instant double capacity! Also the flash duration gets down, no more need for twin heads. At least the 1Dx + PWs gives me the same benefits.

You'll be waiting 30 seconds between shots on a 40mp RAW image to downconvert to mRAW or sRAW.  You could say that wouldn't be a sports camera :) :)
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Lawliet

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2012, 08:57:11 PM »

You'll be waiting 30 seconds between shots on a 40mp RAW image to downconvert to mRAW or sRAW.  You could say that wouldn't be a sports camera :) :)

Rather use the crop mode to gain some extra reach combined with higher framerate and buffer depth. ;)
The downsampled RAWs never where my cup of tea - and I wouldn't buy a high res cam for sports, esp. as there are two(pointfive, does the 7D(II) count?) better suited ones.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2012, 09:46:52 PM »
If it tons of MP but poor DR and low fps with no fast fps cropped modes then I fail to see how it does anything next to a D800, worse yet if it is in brick size, I'd rather a 5D3 or D800 by far.

If they make it all 5D3 specs other than now 35MP then it's something at least since it would outperform D800 in all ways other than low ISO DR.

If they somehow suddenly got better DR already too then it'd be utterly killer, but if they had better DR then why not in the 5D3/1DX?

wickidwombat

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2012, 09:56:36 PM »
If this is true would they include video? Personally being a still snapper I would hope its still only however I can see an oportunity where they could be the first real MF unit to use video and hence they can reproduce the video revolution they had with the 5d2 just something to ponder I'm not saying its right or anything. I would agree though they would need to do the MF properly with 16 bit raw and iq to match the big boys
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2012, 10:16:56 PM »
I partly agree but the differences can be a bit more apparent than you imply IMO even for non-cropped 19" prints. And once you crop and moreso when you are distance limited, I mean just look at how much more detail a 7D can toss on a bird than a 5D2.

I must admit, this really doesn't excite me all that much.

There's more resolution to be had in the 135 format, yes. Probably even up into the 80 megapickle range.

But we're well past the 80/20 rule and firmly into the realm of diminishing returns.

Even theoretically, if you never print bigger than 24" x 36", even if you crop heavily, today's top-end full-frame cameras are more than enough. And, in the real world, those same cameras are just fine up to as wide as you can print on an iPF8100. Yes, a side-by-side comparison with such a print between a 5DIII and a D800 might maybe possibly reveal a bit more sharpness perhaps in the print from the D800...but only if you stand so close to the print that you can't even see the whole thing even if you turn your head.

...which is where the larger formats come into play. If a 5DIII or even a 1DX ain't gonna cut the mustard, then, really, neither is the D800 nor anything else in the 135 format. You'll need at least 645 format, if not all the way to large format, for the kinds of prints where the 5DIII is inadequate.

And let's not forget the cost, in terms of both performance and storage capacity. The new camera sure as Hell won't be 12 FPS, and it ain't gonna be 6 FPS, either. And you better plan on getting bigger and faster cards as well as a new RAID array to support it.

All for...what? 40" x 60" prints that look as sharp as today's 36" x 54" prints? Is that really worth it?

I'm sure, assuming the trend continues, that I'll eventually wind up owning a camera with more megapickles than my 5DIII. But, in all honesty, I don't see that happening until said camera has the non-sensor camera specs of the 1DX. Because, when it comes right down to it, it's not the sensor that's the weak link in today's cameras -- not by a long shot, and it hasn't been for quite some time.

Indeed, it's been that way ever since digital surpassed film, for that matter...which was somewhere around the dawn of the modern DSLR era, as I recall....

Cheers,

b&

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2012, 10:18:24 PM »
Ok. more megapixels. That was always going to happen.

But will the sensor be any better?
Will it still have vertical banding up the wazoo in dark areas?
Will the read noise be the same?
Will the dynamic response be about the same?

What was so good about the D800 wasn't just the increase in number of pixels but the quality of those pixels.

yeah it's low ISO DR that was even more impressive
(and ability to still hit 5-6fps under certain circumstances)

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2012, 10:18:24 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: August 07, 2012, 01:05:29 AM »
Ok. more megapixels. That was always going to happen.

But will the sensor be any better?
Will it still have vertical banding up the wazoo in dark areas?
Will the read noise be the same?
Will the dynamic response be about the same?

What was so good about the D800 wasn't just the increase in number of pixels but the quality of those pixels.

yeah it's low ISO DR that was even more impressive
(and ability to still hit 5-6fps under certain circumstances)

Everyone goes on about the D800 - excluding mps it is barely to the 2007 1Ds3 standard as an all-round camera

Even my 2004 1Ds2 is still churning out impressive pictures at 16x12.

I have found that modern sensors are so good that the critical factor is the lens. Comparing an image from a 24-105 with one from a 200 f/2  on the same body shows up on larger print with better detail definition as well as improved contrast and colour rendition. The 70-200 f/2.8 II is very good as well.

If you are only taking for the web then a 5Dc plus top lens is as good as anything (as it gives that unique 5Dc colour rendition)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:42:53 AM by briansquibb »

Bosman

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2012, 01:21:42 AM »
Buy the camera and brand that works for what you do and be happy but wait if you have one or the other that doesn't fit your upgrade path. People don't need to switch. I switched from Nikon in 2007 and i kicked myself in 2008 when the Nikon d3 came around. I wasted $3000 on switching. Did i get more work or more amazing results, not that i recall. Its really sad when i see people switching because those who do buy into the BS behind it. Buy your camera learn everything about it and love it! If you need more mp from Canon then wait, it won't be long. I truly believe that and i know its even a rumor but its just logical since the 1dx only fits 60% of the Canon pro body photographer purchasers out there since the mp havent been upped. If however you needed the mp, then D800 it is. Its really not as political as it seems. Does a tool fit your workflow? That is the question that you need to ask. For me, the D800 is outside my workflow as like the d800 is so slow to begin with that Nikon would make people hate them with a med raw option since it would take a decade to write it. Also, I have prob 15 or more Hard drives and i can tell you the D800 would make me need 5 more this year alone if I had one. No thanks.
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lola

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2012, 04:08:48 AM »

Everyone goes on about the D800 - excluding mps it is barely to the 2007 1Ds3 standard as an all-round camera


You made my day!

Resolution and DR have direct impact on IQ and yet you compare D800 with 1Ds Mark III.



Even my 2004 1Ds2 is still churning out impressive pictures at 16x12.


My 2001 Fiat Coupé still runs very smooth, you think I should compare it to a 2012 Mercedes-Benz?
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briansquibb

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: August 07, 2012, 04:35:49 AM »

Everyone goes on about the D800 - excluding mps it is barely to the 2007 1Ds3 standard as an all-round camera


You made my day!

Resolution and DR have direct impact on IQ and yet you compare D800 with 1Ds Mark III.



Even my 2004 1Ds2 is still churning out impressive pictures at 16x12.


My 2001 Fiat Coupé still runs very smooth, you think I should compare it to a 2012 Mercedes-Benz?

Resolution beyond those pixels needed have no impact on IQ. a 10mp picture when printed contains no extra detail whether it comes from a 21mp camera or a 36mp camera. It is the colour rendition and clarity that really counts.

DR on the 1DS3 is very close that on the D800 - particularly in normal shooting where DR requirements rarely get above 10. The 1Ds3 matches the noise of the D800 at 50-200iso

I would be very surprised indeed if there was any visible improvement on a 16x12 from a D800 rather than the 1Ds3 - particularly when the Canons superior lens are taken into account.

kirillica

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: August 07, 2012, 08:47:33 AM »
My 2001 Fiat Coupé still runs very smooth, you think I should compare it to a 2012 Mercedes-Benz?
It's not a correct comparison, if you take it in general. Yes, old gear cannot produce large prints on, let's say, 300DPI. but for web or 10*15cm - you won't see the difference. I even saw some test pictures from Hassy and some mirrorless camera: on 10*15cm 300dpi print-size even professionals can't distinguish which belongs to which camera ;)

briansquibb

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: August 07, 2012, 11:08:58 AM »
My 2001 Fiat Coupé still runs very smooth, you think I should compare it to a 2012 Mercedes-Benz?
It's not a correct comparison, if you take it in general. Yes, old gear cannot produce large prints on, let's say, 300DPI. but for web or 10*15cm - you won't see the difference. I even saw some test pictures from Hassy and some mirrorless camera: on 10*15cm 300dpi print-size even professionals can't distinguish which belongs to which camera ;)

10 x 8  @300dpi is about 8mp

16 x 12 @300dpi is 4800 x 3600 which the 5D2/5D3/1Ds3 manages natively - you wont tell that from a D800 except by colour rendition (maybe)

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: August 07, 2012, 11:08:58 AM »

Bosman

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: August 07, 2012, 02:08:24 PM »
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml


Quote
The Results

In every case no one could reliably tell the difference between 13X19" prints shot with the $40,000 Hasselblad and Phase One 39 Megapixel back, and the new $500 Canon G10. In the end no one got more than 60% right, and overall the split was about 50 / 50, with no clear differentiator. In other words, no better than chance.
:D
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lola

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2012, 02:17:32 PM »
20D, 40D, 5D, 5D Mark II, 1DX, D800 EF 17-40mm. f/4.0 L USM, EF 70-200mm. f/2.8 L USM, EF 24-105mm. f/4 L IS USM, EF 100mm. f/2.8 L IS USM Macro, AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm. f/2.8 G ED VR II, AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2012, 02:17:32 PM »