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Author Topic: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]  (Read 24424 times)

bdunbar79

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 12:02:50 AM »
I actually know a guy who went from the D700 to the D800.  He's regretting it.  The IQ isn't any better to him on a computer screen or print, and the file sizes are insane.  The camera doesn't have time to shoot mRAW or sRAW.  So you're stuck.
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jrista

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 12:13:20 AM »
I am tired of Canon offering similar or inferior products to Nikon and pricing them significantly higher.

...you mean, like featherweight Big Whites, the TS-E 17 and 24 II, the MP-E 65, the built-in radio flash ETTL triggers, the entire Cinema line, the 12 FPS 1DX...?

Get a grip, man. Nikon's got a marginal advantage on one aspect of one feature of their cameras -- one that even comes with far more substantial image quality problems than it "solves" (color balance problems especially).

Sure, Nikon ekes out an extra stop or two of shadow recovery in scenes with truly miserable light. And if you make your living shooting in truly miserable light and you really need ISO 400-equivalent noise in your four-stops-pushed shadows as opposed to ISO 1000-equivalent noise, then maybe the D800 really is best for you.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that Nikon's making better cameras, let alone a better camera system. The stop or two of "extra" noise in the Canon shadows notwithstanding, the 5DIII blows the D800 out of the water. Color rendition, autofocus speed, autofocus reliability, framerate -- all those things that separate a modern camera from a Brownie, the Canon has the D800 beat hands down.

Cheers,

b&

I wouldn't say Nikon is beating Canon in only one area. They seem to be making consistent improvements in the area of AF (Nikon's new 51pt AF system still performs extremely well against Canon's 61pt AF, and not only do they keep f/8 AF, they have NINE f/8 AF points! Canon seriously dropped the ball there, and its hurt their reputation with birders and wildlifers, as well as anyone who used TC's with the supertele whites.) Nikon also seems to have a very superior sensor in their mirrorless cameras, both in terms of DR and AF capabilities. Metering is another area where Nikon is ahead of Canon, and have been for years. The 1D X's RGB meter would be the only real competition, and its yet to be seen if it is as accurate and capable. Its also relegated to that one camera...iFCL is used everywhere else, and its good, but quite lacking compared to Nikon's 3D full-color metering.

When it comes to lenses, I think Canon definitely wins hands down these days...their lens technology has always been on the cutting edge, and with nanocoating on all their lenses, featherweight whites, 4-stop IS, DO lenses, and spatial resolution up the wazoo they are kicking the crap out of all the competition. I think they are solid competition with Zeiss lenses, and with the advent of SWC nanocoating on their lenses, are far superior to Zeiss' T* multicoating. I don't think anyone surpasses Canon in terms of lens options and variety either, especially with the variety of specialty lens options like the MP-E. Their new flash system is pretty amazing, too. I'm not much of a flash user, however I moderate a photography forum, and people seem fairly excited about the new line of flash equipment.

Canon's only real weak area is their sensor fabrication. They had to cut corners with their latest AF sensor, and they effectively "cheated" to get the SNR of the 1D X and 5D III sensors "up to snuff" by weakening the CFA color filters for red and blue pixels. I would also be willing to bet that Nikon is leveraging their relationship with Sony to build AF sensors that have very low read noise, which is probably how they managed to break through the f/8 AF barrier and have multiple f/8 AF points. Canon excels everywhere else...it really is time they put some more R&D into their CMOS sensor tech, not just image sensors but ALL of their CMOS sensor tech. Its time to eliminate noise, and move into the modern era. Canon seems to have patents for a layered (Foveon-esque) sensor design as well. If they could develop a layered sensor with the same pixel pitch as the 1D X, that might propel them back to the forefront, and really turn some heads.

A 35mp+ layered megapixel monster (105mb, by Sigma's counting standards) would be the kind of game-changer Canon really needs. ;P I highly doubt the rumored high MP camera from Canon will actually be a layered RGB design, but it would certainly peak my interest.
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cbphoto

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2012, 02:20:54 AM »
I would love:
  • A 36+ Mp camera body from Canon
  • In a 1Dx-style body
  • The best dynamic range delivered at the lowest ISO values
  • Deliver more pixels rather than higher frame rates
  • Provide the best Live View focus/framing possible, in lieu of 60-point autofocus tech
  • Target the still-life/landscape/studio photographer, not the PJ or sports guy
  • Eventually eliminate the flapping mirror and provide an eye level HD video finder
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lola

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2012, 02:33:04 AM »
Ok. more megapixels. That was always going to happen.

But will the sensor be any better?
Will it still have vertical banding up the wazoo in dark areas?
Will the read noise be the same?
Will the dynamic response be about the same?

What was so good about the D800 wasn't just the increase in number of pixels but the quality of those pixels.

It's obvious isn't it? Respectively; no, yes, yes, yes.

And don't forget about how ridiculously Canon will price it...
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marinien

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2012, 02:55:52 AM »
I certainly wouldn't say we are "firmly" in the realm of diminishing returns. I think Nikon and Sony proved that with the D800's sensor. It not only added considerably to pixel density, it improved the quality of those pixels as well. A 36mp sensor has 4.6 micron pixels, which are LARGER than the 4.3 micron pixels of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors as well as the new 24mp sensors used in the D3200. Again, Sony and Nikon have demonstrated that a 24mp APS-C sensor, which is pushing 130lp/mm in terms of spatial resolution, is also capable of not only having more pixels, but pixels of higher quality.

The question is not whether Canon can produce a high MP sensor. The question is whether Canon can compete and produce a high MP sensor with BETTER QUALITY PIXELS than any of their current sensors, including the 1D X and 5D III. By eliminating almost all noise in Exmor (there is only about 2-3 electrons worth...not much more to remove), SoNikon have basically set the stage...the only thing LEFT TO DO once you perfect the pixel is pack more of them in.

Waw, after you, pixel quality = pixel size  :o ? Do you know that the sensor of your 7D have a pixel density equivalent to a 46MP FF sensor?
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dilbert

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2012, 03:15:37 AM »
If it surpasses or just evenly matches the D800 in RAW IQ. Alot of 5d3 users will be quite angry at canon. (Me Included)

Why?

You bought the best Canon camera that satisfied your needs and budget that was available at that point in time.

Seriously, people who think like this about digital cameras need a reality check.

pakosouthpark

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2012, 03:24:53 AM »
well i think they should first take care of the entry level FF camera and then pay attention to this one towards the end of  the year!

Ricku

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2012, 03:47:50 AM »
Ok. more megapixels. That was always going to happen.

But will the sensor be any better?
Will it still have vertical banding up the wazoo in dark areas?
Will the read noise be the same?
Will the dynamic response be about the same?

What was so good about the D800 wasn't just the increase in number of pixels but the quality of those pixels.

+1!
I was just about to write this, but you beat me to it.

If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

And even if Canon could do it right now, they will hold back because they are afraid to anger all the 5D3 buyers. Especially the ones who pretends that they don't care about improved DR.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 03:52:00 AM by Ricku »

briansquibb

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2012, 04:43:56 AM »
If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

I am more optimistic - in 2007 Canon produced the 1DS3 whose sensor delivered performance than only now has Nikon been able to surpass - and then in not all areas

If Canon could produce such a sensor 5 years ago then I can see no reason why they cant do it again


dilbert

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2012, 05:09:59 AM »
If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

I am more optimistic - in 2007 Canon produced the 1DS3 whose sensor delivered performance than only now has Nikon been able to surpass - and then in not all areas

If Canon could produce such a sensor 5 years ago then I can see no reason why they cant do it again

Yes, you've got to wonder where Canon's sensor development is going because it seems like the answer is "nowhere".

Mr Simpleton

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2012, 05:14:27 AM »
Browsing the comments... it seems Canon will fail big time no matter what they do!

Seriously... if they do get the sensor to perform like the 1Dx and with twice the pixels it sound like a winner! Compare this with the new focusing system with the superb repetability (see lensrentals blog) it will be one sweet camera.


greenlimabeans

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2012, 05:25:13 AM »
For those who doubt the value of more megapixels, a very interesting read:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2012/02/d800-megapixels.html

Personally, the focusing on my 5dii is just adequate for me, so there's no reason to lust after a 5diii with indistinguishable sensor quality at reasonable ISOs.

I'm pretty much locked into Canon by my lenses, plus my familiarity with the controls layout, but I do lust after the image quality and lack of vertical banding when pulling dark areas, huge DR and lovely, even noise of the d800.

Canon, please just buy the Sony sensor and make a d800 clone but with decent live view. And while you're at it, update the 50mm f1.4 to do it justice. Then I'll have no choice but to throw $4500 or so your way.

Ricku

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2012, 05:41:42 AM »
If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

I am more optimistic - in 2007 Canon produced the 1DS3 whose sensor delivered performance than only now has Nikon been able to surpass - and then in not all areas

If Canon could produce such a sensor 5 years ago then I can see no reason why they cant do it again
So why does it seem like most of their sensor development has come to a halt? ..Just look at the 5D3 sensor. I admit that the 5D3 is a fine camera, but the sensor is quite underwhelming. No bump in resolution, no DR improvement at normal ISOs. And yes, it even inherited vertical lines of pattern noise from the 5D2!  :P

I too like to believe that Canon's sensor devs still knows how to innovate and improve, but it sure doesn't look like it.

Browsing the comments... it seems Canon will fail big time no matter what they do!

Seriously... if they do get the sensor to perform like the 1Dx and with twice the pixels it sound like a winner! Compare this with the new focusing system with the superb repetability (see lensrentals blog) it will be one sweet camera.
Dear Simpleton. I am not seeing what you are seeing.

The general consensus among the comments is simply that Canon needs to step up it's sensor development and release a high MP sensor with more DR and no banding.

There is nothing wrong with that, because Nikon / Sony (Canon's main competition) are already way ahead in terms of sensor tech.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 05:58:17 AM by Ricku »

briansquibb

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2012, 06:19:57 AM »
Roll on the 120mp APS-H sensor Canon produced in 2010

DzPhotography

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Re: Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2012, 06:39:04 AM »
I smell Nikon fanboys  :o
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