July 26, 2014, 04:08:40 PM

Author Topic: Canon to announce medium format dslr?  (Read 15359 times)

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 951
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 12:13:03 PM »
I see lots of people hypothesizing and / or wishing for medium format mirrorless with an EF mount.

Frankly, I really, really don't see that happening.

At absolute most, it'll be like the EOS M, where you can use an adapter to mount EF lenses.

But, really...there's no point. Maybe you could use the TS-E lenses without using the movements, but everything else is going to have an image circle that just barely covers the 135 format. That especially includes each and every lens with less-than-stellar corner performance...which is just about every lens one might think one might want to use with medium format.

No, medium format, mirrorless or otherwise, will come with a new mount and new lenses. It simply has to; physics (geometry!) demands as much -- which is exactly why it ain't gonna happen.

Cheers,

b&

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 12:13:03 PM »

preppyak

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012, 12:43:44 PM »
it´s all nice and true what you say but i know more people with a medium format camera then with a 15000$ video camera  + 43000$ lenses (like the canon CN-E 14.5-60mm).
That's because most of the people working in that realm rent rather than buy. They factor that into their prices. You'd have to know someone with a production suite to know someone who owns the C300 or RED cameras personally. This is especially true because a normal video production involves multiple people and a lot more money; whereas someone in photography can, theoretically, do their work on their own.

I just don't get the excitement for Canon medium format. It probably can't use your existing EF lenses, so, you are already not forced into a specific system. And I can't imagine it not being $10k+, as the Canon niche products have come out as expensive, if not more expensive than their counterparts (the C300 is way overpriced, the 1D-C costs 50% more than Sony's F700, and the C500 is comparable in price with a RED system). So if you're willing to spend $10k+ on a MF system, why not do it already with the options that exist?

And again, the Canon Cine stuff was announced in April; yet doesn't exist right now. You can't pre-order it, and even the pricing wasn't definitive at the time of the announcement. There's not even a release date for them to push back 3 months. So you might see this thing in 2013, but at the same price as what exists today...


wockawocka

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
    • Wedding Photography
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012, 12:53:59 PM »
Hmmm, how about a Canon Medium format system with a removable back and adaptor for Hasselblad bodies which consists of 2 x 1Dx sensors.
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

Ellen Schmidtee

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 01:21:48 PM »
I see lots of people hypothesizing and / or wishing for medium format mirrorless with an EF mount.

Frankly, I really, really don't see that happening.

At absolute most, it'll be like the EOS M, where you can use an adapter to mount EF lenses.

<snip>

No, medium format, mirrorless or otherwise, will come with a new mount and new lenses. It simply has to; physics (geometry!) demands as much -- which is exactly why it ain't gonna happen.

I think it's the other way around - EOS M proved that the mount is the electronics, and no more.

Therefore, if Canon makes medium format cameras, why not do the same? Keep the contacts, keep the protocols, increase the flange distance for the MF camera, and allow the MF lenses to be mounted on FF  / APS-C / EOS M cameras via an adapter that compensates for the smaller-sensor-body's shorter flange distance.

Lawliet

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 01:26:45 PM »
[
EF stands for electronic focus if im not wrong.


E: electronic aperture
F: autofocus
TS: tilt/shift
Build your own lens designation :)

Build your own is also to be considered with MF - modularity is much more widespread, at the same time most Canon gear would have noticeable caveats, from the image circle of the lenses to the flash duration of the Speedlites. Would a Canon MF offer me anything past having the same label on the gear? "Me too" isn't much of a sales point to me. OTOH building a 135 that behaves more like MF would have benefits...

The Bad Duck

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 03:13:08 PM »
It does sound unlikely. Why on earth would anyone use a crop mode on a MF camera? You get a MF camera because of sensor size then why not use it? Does not make sense. However, if FF is considered "full" and aps-c is considered "small" then medium format might be aps-h? But then again, why keep that format around anyways? Better to develop less sensors and do them better as competition on sensors are harder than ever. No. If I would spend money on a MF cam I would also spend money on one or two great lenses built for it instead of cripling it with croped lenses.

wockawocka

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
    • Wedding Photography
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2012, 04:43:38 PM »
It does sound unlikely. Why on earth would anyone use a crop mode on a MF camera? You get a MF camera because of sensor size then why not use it? Does not make sense. However, if FF is considered "full" and aps-c is considered "small" then medium format might be aps-h? But then again, why keep that format around anyways? Better to develop less sensors and do them better as competition on sensors are harder than ever. No. If I would spend money on a MF cam I would also spend money on one or two great lenses built for it instead of cripling it with croped lenses.

Well it's not as crazy as it sounds.

For studio work I use two lenses, on the H3dII-39 I use a 100mm 2.2 with a 1.7x TC, I also have an 80, which I don't use and a 35mm for landscapes.

My canon kit though has 10 lenses.

So a MF body with an EF mount would be cool. I could buy the body, then expand my lenses. a bit like how you can fit a EF lens to a crop body. It doesn't use all the lens but you get used to the L glass.

But if you can remove the back and send it to a Haselblad / Mamiya or Phase body Canon will sell them by the bucketload. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they'd dominate the market in less than 12 months.

The only thing Hasselblad's H3D body and sensor has over the 1DX is 39mp, 16 bit files, no AA filter, and Hasselblad glass.

But my max useable ISO is 200.

Imagine what it would do to the MF market.
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2012, 04:43:38 PM »

dhofmann

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2012, 04:55:53 PM »
One strategy to allow EF lenses on a medium format body despite the smaller image circle is to apply vignetting correction in firmware, provided the vignetting isn't too severe.

Increasing the flange distance to accommodate a larger mirror will lose infinity focus on some lenses, but maybe Canon has designed this problem out of their new lenses. So this might be an alternative to a mirrorless medium format body.

And of course, an adapter with glass can fix both problems, but the results may not be pretty.
t2i

wockawocka

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
    • Wedding Photography
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2012, 05:09:35 PM »
A lot of my L glass goes past infinity.
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

art_d

  • Canon AE-1
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2012, 05:29:22 PM »
But, really...there's no point. Maybe you could use the TS-E lenses without using the movements, but everything else is going to have an image circle that just barely covers the 135 format.

Actually it's been known for some time that Canon's newer TS-E lenses can be used on medium format sensors with movements.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/hartblei-cam.shtml

I would be interested in a Canon EF-mount medium format even if the only lenses that worked on it were TS-E lenses, and even if it was a live-view only camera. I think there are a lot of architecture and landscape photographers like myself who would be very interested in this as an option. A really nice alternative over going with something like a Phase One back with a technical camera setup. But, the problem in my view is that Canon would need to add a couple more TS-E lenses into their lineup.

The 24mm is just about perfect for architecture in most circumstances, and 17mm is really nice but useful mostly in a few specialized circumstances because of how ultrwide angle can exaggerate the viewpoint. Say theoretically Canon comes out with a typical "small" MF sensor that's 33x44mm....a 24mm lens would become equivalent to 19mm on a FF DSLR. And 17mm would be like 13mm. That's great for ultrawide fanatics, but not so great for more typical commercial photos. There are rumors of updated 45mm and 90mm TS-Es, which would be great, but a 45mm on the MF would be like 35mm on FF. To get to that 24-28mm range which is in my opinion the classical "sweet spot" for standard wide angle, they'd need to also come out with a 30-35mm TS-E.
 

« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 05:34:01 PM by art_d »

Dylan777

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3678
    • View Profile
    • http://dylannguyen.500px.com/home
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 05:31:16 PM »

Would be nice to be able to shoot at 12800 ISO without noise  ;D

I'm in
Body: 1DX -- 5D III
Zoom: 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 951
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 05:36:46 PM »
One strategy to allow EF lenses on a medium format body despite the smaller image circle is to apply vignetting correction in firmware, provided the vignetting isn't too severe.

It's not just a matter of a couple stops of darkening plus a bit of loss of contrast / resolution.

It's complete darkness, as dark as with a lens cap.

I can't be arsed to look for examples, but the new fisheye zoom at its smallest focal length is what it looks like.

Quote
Increasing the flange distance to accommodate a larger mirror will lose infinity focus on some lenses, but maybe Canon has designed this problem out of their new lenses. So this might be an alternative to a mirrorless medium format body.

And of course, an adapter with glass can fix both problems, but the results may not be pretty.

The whole point of medium format is image quality. Suggest to somebody about to blow five figures on a medium format kit that you can kludge together an adapter that'll let you turn a 135 format lens into a coke bottle and they'll ask you what kind of crack you've been smoking.

There really, truly isn't any advantage at all to be had by mounting a 135 format lens to a medium format body (with the exception of some bizarre specialist rigs), even in a crop mode.

If you can afford a medium format body and you've got a bunch of 135 format lenses, you've already got multiple 135 format bodies. So why on Earth would you want to stick one of those lenses on the medium format body any more than somebody who today shoots a 5DIII / 1DX / D800 would want to mount an EF-S lens?

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Cheers,

b&

Tayvin

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
    • Tayvin Knight Photo
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 05:55:00 PM »
This rumor has been around forever.  I don't see Canon benefitting from the MF market. Their main target is photo enthusiasts and they make a fortune doing just that.  Hassy will make a 35mm camera before Canon gets into MF.  35mm is what sells.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 05:55:00 PM »

Portrait_Moments_Photogra

  • Guest
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 06:22:27 PM »
all i can say is -

you will be AMAZED how many medium format cameras got sold to "Non Photography Professionals"

- think of it this way - are those who bought Lambos, Ferraris, Vipers, Corvettes - race car drivers?


 - Im not going to hold my breath if canon makes MF or not - i got my share of MF cameras and digital backs.

but to say one camera manufacturer over the other will not make one camera system over the other system...
try asking surgeons, lawyers and high end professionals who are into photography - most of them got one :)

... because they can.

ishdakuteb

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 342
    • View Profile
Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 06:49:15 PM »

Would be nice to be able to shoot at 12800 ISO without noise  ;D

I'm in

there are noise even at 100 iso, so you probably have no chance to see a camera produce an image without noise unless it is a camera making by aliens...  :)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon to announce medium format dslr?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 06:49:15 PM »