September 17, 2014, 03:43:48 AM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download  (Read 24532 times)

pwp

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1543
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 05:24:41 AM »
I like how Canon has a middle finger up to all the 1D IV buyers, the 7D get's a major 2.0 firmware update
and 1D IV is still at 1.1.1

Granted the 1D IV works great but 1D IV was announced later than the 7D an now it is already discontinued
from production with no new improvements in the firmware.

If you ask Canon they probably won't admit 1D IV ever existed and laugh at whoever bought it.
It sounds like you don't own a 1DMk4. Most photographers who use them are likely to consistently thank their original decision to buy one.
There is no particular need that I can see for firmware fixes. What is it you are taking aim at?

I think Canon can be justifiably very proud of the overall performance of the 1DMk4. It's a very refined and worked over upgrade from the previous 1D Mk3. I'd be more likely to laugh at photographers who have not had the pleasure of working with a Mk4 than expect to hear the smug laugh from Canon that you suggest.

Until I get a 1DX, I'll safely say that in a fairly long career using top of the line equipment the 1D Mk4 is the best camera I have ever worked with.

PW

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 05:24:41 AM »

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 05:50:48 AM »
Quote
- The manual audio is a massive fail to say the least. Yes, we can set it. But we can't monitor it during filming. And as far as I can tell. The windcut filter is there by default and cannot be disabled. So, yes, it's there. But how are we supposed to use it effectively?

I've been through the manual and cannot find any mention of a windcut function, by default or otherwise.
Can you point me to it via the menu or in the handbook?

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d#BrochuresAndManuals

If wind noise is a problem the cheapest solution is a rycote micro windjammer for the front mic.
A better solution is to use an external mic with windjammer or softee when required.
An even better solution is use an off camera external mic with windjammer or softee when required.

If you are serious enough about audio to require constant monitoring then you will no doubt want to use a set of headphones.  Even if full time VU's were available why would you monitor with these visually alone?  Sound is audible not visual.

I use a beachtek dxa-5da, there are other models available, and similar devices from the likes of juiced link.  Some folk prefer zooms though I prefer to have everything on camera and in one file.

The beachtek gives you live VU's, gives you live pans, and gives you a headphone socket, so you can at least monitor the audio going to the camera.

Typically I would set a record level on the camera that permits me to keep the cameras pre-amps low (this may require a hot mic such as a sennheiser K6) or an interface with phantom power pre-amps (DXA-DSLR, Minx, SQN) and then control ongoing levels via the external unit.

The genesis of this problem is that the 7D dates from a time when video was still something of an after thought, even to this day, unless you buy a dedicated video camera such as the EOS c300, there is no way to get XLRs (the default professional mic connection) into a DSLR.

Firmware can add audio levels, but it cannot add physical connectors such as headphone sockets.

I would never ever seek to monitor audio by VU alone.  Unless you are hearing what the mic is hearing then you are seeing is electrical signal strength with no clue of quality.  That is not monitoring.

Klahanieman

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 05:55:55 AM »
Hello, has anyone had the opertunity to use the GPS module? I have had mine for months, and it's my main reason for wanting this update. Go, figure I would be away without access to my computer.

Thanks

Musicjohn

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 07:06:22 AM »
If you are serious enough about audio to require constant monitoring then you will no doubt want to use a set of headphones.  Even if full time VU's were available why would you monitor with these visually alone?  Sound is audible not visual.

I totally disagree with you. The very reason you can not connect a headphone to the 7D to monitor audio levels makes a visual reference an absolute MUST HAVE !!!

At least you can see when it's peaking into the red zone, and you could then adjust the levels accordingly. But since that is not the case, this feature of the firmware update is a complete waste of time. Canon should have created the possibility to keep the dB meter on the screen whilst recording, and make it possible to adjust the levels during recording by using the main dail.


Cannon Man

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 07:17:48 AM »
I like how Canon has a middle finger up to all the 1D IV buyers, the 7D get's a major 2.0 firmware update
and 1D IV is still at 1.1.1

Granted the 1D IV works great but 1D IV was announced later than the 7D an now it is already discontinued
from production with no new improvements in the firmware.

If you ask Canon they probably won't admit 1D IV ever existed and laugh at whoever bought it.
It sounds like you don't own a 1DMk4. Most photographers who use them are likely to consistently thank their original decision to buy one.
There is no particular need that I can see for firmware fixes. What is it you are taking aim at?

I think Canon can be justifiably very proud of the overall performance of the 1DMk4. It's a very refined and worked over upgrade from the previous 1D Mk3. I'd be more likely to laugh at photographers who have not had the pleasure of working with a Mk4 than expect to hear the smug laugh from Canon that you suggest.

Until I get a 1DX, I'll safely say that in a fairly long career using top of the line equipment the 1D Mk4 is the best camera I have ever worked with.

PW

I was half serious. i should have put LOL at the end. I own two 1D IV cameras and it's a fine camera and i have nothing but good memories using them but compared to the 1DX it is old and kind of useless cos' 1DX does everything much better. Still i think the 1D IV would deserve some new features even though it had a short life span.  LOL LOL LOL
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 07:21:10 AM by Cannon Man »

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 07:49:22 AM »
@MusicJohn

Quote
I totally disagree with you. The very reason you can not connect a headphone to the 7D to monitor audio levels makes a visual reference an absolute MUST HAVE !!!

At least you can see when it's peaking into the red zone, and you could then adjust the levels accordingly. But since that is not the case, this feature of the firmware update is a complete waste of time. Canon should have created the possibility to keep the dB meter on the screen whilst recording, and make it possible to adjust the levels during recording by using the main dail.

I didn't say that.  I said a visual reference alone was pretty much worthless.  Read my post again and tell me I didn't outline my monitoring (with headphones) solution as well as that used by others (i.e. zooms etc)

Here's how audio mixing for live video works...  Get a reference peak tone from your sound mixer.  Like a 1k tone with the faders open.   Set your camera up so that the tone is a solid -18db.   Thats your audio set as far as the camera goes.  Nothing from your mixer is going to spike much above this,  you have given the camera plenty of headroom.   Very important for digital recording. 

You then ride the levels on the mixer, be it an SQN field type mixer, or a breakout box with level controls like a beachtek.  This device will have some form of VU's and a headphone socket. 

It would be jolly lovely to have live VU's on the camera back, but they aren't an indication of the quality of the audio, only the strength of the signal.

If you are serious enough to care about any of this then I cannot accept that you would not want a way of hearing what your microphone and mixer is hearing.

No the 7D implementation is not ideal.  Never was and probably never now will be.  The camera isn't really set up for on the fly adjustment either (its a camera, not a video camera) but hey, if you have the correct external gear then you use that.

Live VU meters would solve another 5% of the cameras audio deficiencies.  That AGC can now be disabled solves about 50% of the audio deficiencies.

sick_666

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 07:54:10 AM »
high ISO IQ is better now?  ::)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 07:54:10 AM »

marekjoz

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 945
    • View Profile
    • marekjoz @flickr
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 08:00:58 AM »
These main features regarding RAW manipulation are important if you mainly use DPP - you can work on later with already optimized, "CA-free" file but only in DPP. If you use Lightroom anyway, then it's of course totally useless.
Fast exporting to jpg after some initial changes, like WB, picture style, noise reduction, CA reduction and distortion redution are good if you need to send your file fast after some sport event and you're on your way home sitting in a train without a laptop  :)
Anyway - nice features. You can take your camera to the doctor and waiting in the line manipulate your files saved on a CF card :)
I can confirm - no way to manipulate RAWs taken with prior version of firmware.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 08:04:39 AM by marekjoz »
flickr | youtube | 5D2, 50 F/1.4, 24-105 F/4 L IS, 300 F/4 L IS, x1.4 II

Musicjohn

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 08:38:04 AM »
I didn't say that.  I said a visual reference alone was pretty much worthless. .../... Get a reference peak tone from your sound mixer.  .../...It would be jolly lovely to have live VU's on the camera back, but they aren't an indication of the quality of the audio, only the strength of the signal. .../... If you are serious enough to care about any of this then I cannot accept that you would not want a way of hearing what your microphone and mixer is hearing.

Still don't agree. First of all, I have 15 years of experience recording concerts, so I am aware of what the IDEAL setup should be. But we're talking about all those events where you can't get a line from a mixing-console and you're working with an external mic, like the Rode stereo video mic. In that case, being able to monitor the audio level is a MUST. Sure, you can't judge the quality of the sound by looking at the dB meters, but at least you can make sure it doesn't clip, which means distortion, which in turn means NO QUALITY at all. So even with the ability of AGC being turned off, there is still a great risk of clipping, unless you can actually see on the screen what the audio levels are doing. So, I'd turn it around. 5% for being able to turn off AGC (with AGC on there is actually less chance of audio clipping) and 95% for being able to view the audio levels on screen.

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 08:53:40 AM »
@musicjohn
Quote
First of all, I have 15 years of experience recording concerts, so I am aware of what the IDEAL setup should be.

Congratulations.  So on that basis you would really be expected to see manual levels & AGC off as a step towards a good thing?

Quote
But we're talking about all those events where you can't get a line from a mixing-console and you're working with an external mic, like the Rode stereo video mic.


I'm not.  Rode Stereo video mic is a toy.  It's like putting go faster stripes on a smart car and expecting it to drive like a porsche.  I do have a sennheiser MKE300, which is smarter go faster stripes.  But it's still the wrong perspective, wrong pick up (rear lobe) for on camera use.

The only folk who will care about decent audio to the point where they will play with levels are likely to be using better gear than camera top mics.

Quote
Sure, you can't judge the quality of the sound by looking at the dB meters, but at least you can make sure it doesn't clip, which means distortion, which in turn means NO QUALITY at all. So even with the ability of AGC being turned off, there is still a great risk of clipping, unless you can actually see on the screen what the audio levels are doing. So, I'd turn it around. 5% for being able to turn off AGC (with AGC on there is actually less chance of audio clipping) and 95% for being able to view the audio levels on screen.

Which is why I advocate the use of an interface device such as a beachtek.  If sound is that important to you.

I think you have unreasonable expectations for a DSLR to behave handle and operate like a professional level video camera without ancillary devices.  Even with constant VU's how would you expect to do on the fly adjustment?  Via the control already used for shutter, or via the control already used for aperture.

You have to accept that it's not an ideal device for recording audio, was never designed or marketed as such.
If you can't applaud the much belated progress, or can't accept that professional audio requires a different approach to popping a $100 mic on top, then I don't really feel that we are going to advance the discussion in any meaningful way.

If it's any help to you at all, then look up beachteks.  They have 2x XLRs.  Mic/Line level switching, Mono / Stereo (more like linear stereo / mixed channell) switching, visual VU scale and a headphone socket.  If you buy the model up (the DXA-SLR) then you also get phantom power.  This will transform the 7D into a much more capable device on the audio front, no doubt helping you in your next 15 years recording concerts.

ajmills

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 08:56:59 AM »
The genesis of this problem is that the 7D dates from a time when video was still something of an after thought, even to this day, unless you buy a dedicated video camera such as the EOS c300, there is no way to get XLRs (the default professional mic connection) into a DSLR.

You sort of can - you can use a Zoom H4N to take the XLR connections, then feed the Zoom's headphone output into the camera's mic socket. Bit of a bodge, but it works. However, I'd expect people would be using the Zoom to record with anyway.

As for the firmware update - I think I will leave mine for now and see if Canon comes out with any updates over the next couple of months. I don't think there's much in it that I really need...

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 09:18:27 AM »
@ajmills
Quote
You sort of can - you can use a Zoom H4N to take the XLR connections, then feed the Zoom's headphone output into the camera's mic socket. Bit of a bodge, but it works.

I meant as standard out of the box.  Elsewhere in this post and thread I detail the external options such as the zoom and (my preference) the beachtek.

I am with you on the waiting bit.  Last time round canon launched two firmwares in a week.  I'll let the early adopters break it or their cameras first, and if the haven't after two weeks I'll probably load it.

HAS ANYBODY tried to process the CR2's from 7Dfw2 via exsisting DPP or ACR based apps?
How did that work out?  Curious as I shoot RAW a lot.

Nick Gombinsky

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Workaholic and alcoholic
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 09:44:17 AM »
Big disappointment on my side. I was expecting the audio volume bars during movie recording to stay on screen, so you can actually monitor that the audio does not clip, and if so, adjust accordingly. I record a lot of music performances, and really need the manual audio controls.

I mean, why provide a feature called "manual audio control" when there is nothing to monitor or adjust when recording?

The fact that Canon now gives me a dB meter and more adjustment notches prior to recording, does not have any value at all. They may as well not have bothered!

If you're recording musicians, I'd recommend getting a mixer and looking after the sound that way. And then output to the camera. Now the camera won't raise the gain when there is a pause.

The big plus in manual audio controls is that: Now you can record from a wireless mic or a mixer (pretty common on studios or low budget docos or a lot of other scenarios) where before, the sound mixing would become totally wrecked with AGC.
Canon 7D + grip, Canon 7N + grip
Samyang 16mm f2, 24mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4, Pentax Takumar SMC M42 50mm f1.4 and 135mm f2.5
Blackmagic 4K and lots of goodies

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 09:44:17 AM »

marekjoz

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 945
    • View Profile
    • marekjoz @flickr
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2012, 10:02:21 AM »

HAS ANYBODY tried to process the CR2's from 7Dfw2 via exsisting DPP or ACR based apps?
How did that work out?  Curious as I shoot RAW a lot.

Here are two pictures, one processed in camera, one processed in DPP. Settings applied:
1. in camera - change WB to daylight, change picture style to Faithful (all sliders zero), apply CA correction, apply Peripheral Illumination correction, apply Distortion Correction, Change size to L (HQ)

2. in DPP - change WB to daylight, change picture style to Faithful (all sliders zero), apply DLO correction (50), apply Peripheral Illumination correction (32 default for this lens setting), apply Distortion Correction (100), Change size to L with the best quality.

No changes in NR, ALO, color space.
The untouched RAW converted in  DPP in next post
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:19:30 AM by marekjoz »
flickr | youtube | 5D2, 50 F/1.4, 24-105 F/4 L IS, 300 F/4 L IS, x1.4 II

marekjoz

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 945
    • View Profile
    • marekjoz @flickr
Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »
3. No changes, RAW converted in DPP straight from the camera - no WB, picture style, DLO, peripheral immluminatio, distortion correction. Change size to L with the best quality.
flickr | youtube | 5D2, 50 F/1.4, 24-105 F/4 L IS, 300 F/4 L IS, x1.4 II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »