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Author Topic: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]  (Read 27256 times)

KyleSTL

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2012, 09:08:42 PM »

I did see that on ZITE an ipad magazine that it had an article about Q1 profits for Nikon being either 5% or 5 million lower than what they had hoped for.  It didn't have a break down per model but something isn't selling how they had hoped.

Nikon sales are meeting their predictions. The lose comes from the value of the US Dollar and Euro going down vs the Japanese Yen.

Then how is Canon doing so well (financially), as both companies are based in Japan?

Nikon Q1 financial results: net profit fell by almost 50%
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/

A 50% loss is huge, and I believe cannot be attributed to currency exchange rates alone.

Please go back and re-read the Nikon Rumors post. 
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/
Quote
Sales increased 5.6% to 259.43 billion yen

Nikon had a Sales Increase of 5.6%!!!

So you believe that the Yen-USD exchange rate has nearly 60% to account for the the entire loss? 
https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1344646982655&chddm=219553&q=CURRENCY:USDJPY&ntsp=0

Looks to me since January 1 the rate has gone from 1 USD = 84 Yen peak to 1 USD = 78 Yen current.  That is a change of 7%.  There is a great contributing factor other than exchange rate, surely.
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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2012, 09:08:42 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2012, 11:19:17 PM »
Nikon had a Sales Increase of 5.6%!!!

You are confusing takings vs profit

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2012, 11:41:35 PM »

I did see that on ZITE an ipad magazine that it had an article about Q1 profits for Nikon being either 5% or 5 million lower than what they had hoped for.  It didn't have a break down per model but something isn't selling how they had hoped.

Nikon sales are meeting their predictions. The lose comes from the value of the US Dollar and Euro going down vs the Japanese Yen.

Then how is Canon doing so well (financially), as both companies are based in Japan?

Nikon Q1 financial results: net profit fell by almost 50%
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/

A 50% loss is huge, and I believe cannot be attributed to currency exchange rates alone.

Please go back and re-read the Nikon Rumors post. 
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/
Quote
Sales increased 5.6% to 259.43 billion yen

Nikon had a Sales Increase of 5.6%!!!

So you believe that the Yen-USD exchange rate has nearly 60% to account for the the entire loss? 
https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1344646982655&chddm=219553&q=CURRENCY:USDJPY&ntsp=0

Looks to me since January 1 the rate has gone from 1 USD = 84 Yen peak to 1 USD = 78 Yen current.  That is a change of 7%.  There is a great contributing factor other than exchange rate, surely.

From Thom Hogan's blog By Thom http://bythom.com
Quote
On August 8th Thom Hogan wrote: Meanwhile in Japan, Nikon corporate announced their first quarter financial results with absolutely no surprises. Overall profits were a bit lower than originally forecast, attributed to increased sales costs and yen appreciation. In terms of cameras and lenses, they sold what they said they were going to sell and haven't changed their estimates for the full fiscal year, so I'm not going to roll additional commentary on that from what I did at their last financial disclosure.

Thom Hogan is an author and photographer. He also blogs about Nikon cameras  http://bythom.com  and Mirrorless cameras  http://www.sansmirror.com  His sites are News & Reviews sites, NOT Rumor sites.

Have a nice day :)

KyleSTL

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2012, 01:01:19 PM »
From Thom Hogan's blog By Thom http://bythom.com
Quote
On August 8th Thom Hogan wrote: Meanwhile in Japan, Nikon corporate announced their first quarter financial results with absolutely no surprises. Overall profits were a bit lower than originally forecast, attributed to increased sales costs and yen appreciation. In terms of cameras and lenses, they sold what they said they were going to sell and haven't changed their estimates for the full fiscal year, so I'm not going to roll additional commentary on that from what I did at their last financial disclosure.

Thom Hogan is an author and photographer. He also blogs about Nikon cameras  http://bythom.com  and Mirrorless cameras  http://www.sansmirror.com  His sites are News & Reviews sites, NOT Rumor sites.

Have a nice day :)

My apologies, I'm an engineer, not a finance expert.  I guess if Nikon's gross margins are fairly small, a few percent change in currency exchange rates could (and did) kill over half their profit.  I wonder what Canon's quarterly numbers look like (I haven't seen them, and I'm too lazy to look up if they have been released).  Sorry to start a flame war on a topic about which I should be better informed.
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preppyak

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2012, 02:58:32 PM »
It's unlikely Canon will drop video from any of the dslr bodies - it may appear to be a step backwards to many consumers.
It also likely wouldn't drop the price of the camera, especially a true 5dII successor, since it would have a lot fewer buyers. There was a forum poll a while back, 40% of users wouldn't buy a video-less DSLR at all, and 30% would only buy it if it saved them significantly (30%+) off the price. It was a small sample, maybe 100 people, but, if the video features are even half as popular (so 1/3 of users want them), it means a video-less DSLR has to cost Canon a LOT less to make. Or, they have to charge more for it.

So yeah, I can't see video going away pretty much ever...I can just see Canon not doing much to improve it in their non-cine cameras

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2012, 03:10:00 PM »
Sorry to break it to you, guys, but the 6D rumor is just wishful thinking  :P.

Canon has both the high and low ends covered with new models: new 1DX, new 5DIII, new Rebel, new EOS-M system.
Together with a discounted 5DII, a discounted 7D, and a discounted 60D, they are all set for the holiday shopping season this year.

The 70D will be the next camera from Canon - likely in Jan/Feb next year.
...


"set for the high and low ends" -- agreed, except that there is no pro crop body (time will tell if this is deliberate or not).  That aside, canon is still quite weak in two areas it seems to me. 

1.  The 60D may be discounted but it takes only a slighly clever customer to figure out how old it is.

2. In the advanced crop body space there is nothing, save the 7D which is (slightly) older than the discontinued 1D4.  The 7D firmware udpate may be an attempt to squeeze one more drop out of this platform but imho all this does is make existing 7D owners happier  and does little to make it attractive for holiday shoppers who know how old it is. 

I want to know what Canon expects 1DX and 5D3 owners to puchase as a second body. right now there are no attractive options -- for new purchases I mean.  If they don't want to loose holiday revenue they will have to either deliver or  entice people to wait until after christmas to buy.  and it better be something more attractive than a T4i in a 7D body.

It will be interesting to see if and when Canon makes a move in these areas.

Musouka

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2012, 08:17:53 AM »
It might have been wishful thinking a while ago but ever since the Nikon D600 surfaced in the rumorsphere, it has become more or less a necessity lest Nikon conquered the market.

I personally hope that Canon takes some of the bells and whistles from the latest 650D/T4i and put them in this new body. Things like an articulating touchscreen, continuous AF in video and stereo mic. Put the whole thing in a package similar to the 7D with similar weather sealing and sell it. Granted, this might make the camera superior to the 5DIII in video (if they ended up having the same sensor) but will differentiate the two bodies.

Speaking of the Nikon D600, it is now rumored to include a 51-point AF system instead of the 39-point AF originally rumored. If true, then this makes me wonder if Canon can get away with a 7D AF? Maybe a few modification or a new AF between the 19-point AF and the 63-point AF would do.... perhaps something from the old 1D series (if it fits the smaller packaging, that is).

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2012, 08:17:53 AM »

mathino

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2012, 01:17:58 PM »
I personally hope that Canon takes some of the bells and whistles from the latest 650D/T4i and put them in this new body. Things like an articulating touchscreen, continuous AF in video and stereo mic. Put the whole thing in a package similar to the 7D with similar weather sealing and sell it. Granted, this might make the camera superior to the 5DIII in video (if they ended up having the same sensor) but will differentiate the two bodies.
I agree that touch "rotating-thing" is what Canon could use - but I doubt that, well, if this body has to fit between 5 and 7 series (mag-alloy body and some weather sealing).

As for continuous AF in video - that would require redesign of FF sensor - which means added R&D costs whish results in higher price.

...also this new body with all features you mentioned (mag-alloy, wheater sealing, flippy thing, touchscreen, dual mics) - it would be better in some way that 5D Mk III. No way that Canon would make such product.

Quote
Speaking of the Nikon D600, it is now rumored to include a 51-point AF system instead of the 39-point AF originally rumored. If true, then this makes me wonder if Canon can get away with a 7D AF? Maybe a few modification or a new AF between the 19-point AF and the 63-point AF would do.... perhaps something from the old 1D series (if it fits the smaller packaging, that is).

As for AF: Have you read all info regarding rumored Nikon AF ? That rumored AF would have 9 cross type points ?

Yes, 7D AF has "just" 19 points. The truth is they are all cross type (which means more precise). So yes, giving 7D AF makes sense. They could also re-use 1D Mk IV AF (and keep f/8 possible) - which has 39 cross-type points (and that would attract lots of people).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 01:21:49 PM by mathino »
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Musouka

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2012, 10:46:58 AM »
I'm just trying to picture what the product roadmap would look like.

As it is now, the 650D/T4i has taken some features from the 60D and added some new stuff. This means that the 70D should move up into the slot of the 7D or just utilize the 60D body and add all the new technology from the 650D/T4i and the AF from the 7D and maybe use a slightly better body construction. So I was thinking that the 6D would share a similar body design with 70D but add the FF sensor and some other minor improvements for double the price (around $1000-1100 for the 70D and $2000-2200 for the 6D). Maybe Canon will compromise weather-sealing a bit (something similar to Nikon D7000?) to maintain a lower price point.

It might be wishful thinking but it makes sense to me. Will it cannibalize the sales of the 5DIII? Maybe. By the same token, shouldn't the 650D/T4i cannibalize the sales of the 60D and the 7D? I think the 5DIII would still have enough differentiating factors like a bigger body, better weather sealing, superior AF, faster FPS, bigger buffer and CF+SD if Canon made the 6D use SD only. The video features (especially if Canon ended up developing some Hybrid AF like the Rebel's) might be better than the 5DIII but that might be an opportunity for Canon to capture some of the 5D2 crowd who are mainly interested in video and finds the 5DIII to be too expensive).

I realize that the Nikon 39-point AF only has 9 cross type points. I was talking about the rumor that says it will have a 51-point (15 cross type point) AF similar to the D300, D800 & D4. Would Canon be content with just the 7D AF or will they up their game. In any case, the latest D600 rumor doesn't seem likely as people have pointed out that the screenshot comes from D800(E) manual and not really related the D600.

crasher8

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2012, 12:26:28 PM »
Help me out here.

Isn't the desire for FF MAINLY a stills desire? I hear about a lot of wishes for video features, articulating screen, continuous AF etc. Isn't the T4i fulfilling those wishes at a much lower price point I'm not advocating the new entry level FF body NOT have video but I can't see why it should be feature rich. Especially if it is supposed to fill a price point below the Mk3. I know that the software side of video won't increase the price, that's a given but hardware certainly will.

This new body will not have that many bells and whistles we all know but IQ and resolution is typically a priority in FF bodies and something has to give for it to be entry level, not having too many video bells and whistles would be a starting point if you ask me. Other things:

Single CF card
partial weather sealing
No pop up flash (wouldn't that save money?)


DB

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2012, 12:38:47 PM »
Help me out here.

Isn't the desire for FF MAINLY a stills desire? I hear about a lot of wishes for video features, articulating screen, continuous AF etc. Isn't the T4i fulfilling those wishes at a much lower price point I'm not advocating the new entry level FF body NOT have video but I can't see why it should be feature rich. Especially if it is supposed to fill a price point below the Mk3. I know that the software side of video won't increase the price, that's a given but hardware certainly will.

This new body will not have that many bells and whistles we all know but IQ and resolution is typically a priority in FF bodies and something has to give for it to be entry level, not having too many video bells and whistles would be a starting point if you ask me. Other things:

Single CF card
partial weather sealing
No pop up flash (wouldn't that save money?)

No, not really. The most popular HD DSLR is the Canon 5D2, precisely because it has a FF sensor with larger pixels than most APS-C sensors, and has better low-light performance (thus better for shooting video indoors).

The difference in surface area (SIZE) between the APS-C sized sensor in say the 7D and the FF one in the 5D is enormous, as the FF one is 2.5x larger (that's the difference between 36 x 24 mm vs 22.3 x 14.9 mm). That adds up to a whole lot more IQ when you have a FF sensor with 864 sq.mm vs a crop-sensor with a surface area of just 332 sq.mm

crasher8

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2012, 04:24:06 PM »
Gotcha however it seems to me that the majority of people I read posting about the new entry level FF are stills shooters.
Is anyone with me in thinking that to keep down costs on tooling a new body you leave off the articulating screen?

Musouka

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »
My idea is all about the continuation... if equipped with many of the same features as the 650D/T4i and, decidedly, the 70D, the 6D would be a more natural continuation and upgrade path for enthusiasts as opposed to the pro-sumer 5DIII. They would feel right at home. The articulating screen would give it an advantage over the D600 and doesn't appear to cost that much extra (if anything it makes the camera less sealed).

Now, whether Canon is interested in this way of thinking remains to be seen. Maybe they are or maybe they will think the risk of cannibalizing the sales of the 5DIII is too great.

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »

RC

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2012, 06:56:51 PM »
Gotcha however it seems to me that the majority of people I read posting about the new entry level FF are stills shooters.
Is anyone with me in thinking that to keep down costs on tooling a new body you leave off the articulating screen?

I think it's the other way around.  I'm more inclined to think a body with a articulating screen would be less expensive because I believe articulating screens will only be added to plastic and less sealed bodies. 

Come on Canon, give us a new FF mag & WS body (and without the articulating screen).

crasher8

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2012, 07:59:37 PM »
I would hardly call the 5D3 prosumer. I think the gray area body where lines are blurred is the 7D.

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Re: Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2012, 07:59:37 PM »