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Synomis192

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Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« on: August 12, 2012, 08:56:05 AM »
Just feeling a bit curious about upgrading (or in this case "downgrading") my Canon T1i.

I love my T1i to death, but I grown to dislike the noise at around ISO 800 and with a kit lens, I've found myself constantly having to push that high.

Many people say that I should get a better lens like the Canon 28mm 1.8 or Canon 17-55 2.8 but I do want to go FF some time in my life and I don't want to buy EF-S lenses seeing that will put me further away from purchasing a FF camera. (By that time, Canon would release the Canon 5d Mark IV x) I also don't want to buy EF lenses because I feel like they aren't used to their full potential on a Crop body.

Talking to my girlfriend's mother, who is a photographer, made me think about something. She's had a Canon XTi ever since it was first released. She never upgraded her body, yet she still is able to produce fantastic images from her camera.

I thought, What if I bought a used Canon 5D Classic now and build up my EF lens collection so by the time I can actually upgrade to a modern FF, I'd have a great collection of EF lenses.

I was looking at the specs for a 5Dc and it's really perfect for what I do. I'm not a sports photographer whatsoever. I prefer to do landscapes and portraits. I love the photos that come from a FF body. I like that the usable ISO for the 5Dc is WAY higher than my T1i. I'm not into DSLR filming anymore so I don't need a video mode in my camera. A used 5D is about the same as a T3i. An On-Camera flash isn't needed because I have a Canon 430ex II. I feel more safer having a better build quality.

Do you think my want for a 5Dc is complete sane? or is the 5Dc not a viable option anymore.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 08:58:23 AM by Synomis192 »
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Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« on: August 12, 2012, 08:56:05 AM »

docsavage123

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 09:39:05 AM »
I traded my 40d in for a 5Dc and never looked back, I prefer this to my 7D, the images from it look better, although the autofocus is still not that great. You can pick one up for around £600 in the UK, just remember though it is a bit of a dust magnet.
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 10:22:56 AM »
I had a similar dilemma.  Last fall, I had a 30D and was waiting for the 5D3 to be released and move to to FF.  I got impatient and bought a 5Dc on eBay for $750, then sold my 30D for $250.  I couldn't be happier - the 5Dc has fantastic image quality - I love it!  With only $500 out of pocket, I had enough budget left over to buy some fantastic glass.  I don't even think I'm going to upgrade to the 5D3 now. 

My advice to you is to buy a 5Dc, and get a really good L lens. 

My only regret is selling the crop body - I miss it for wildlife photography (but that's a small fraction of what I do). 

Good luck!
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 11:01:35 AM »
Get the 5Dc and a decent L lens, something like a 24-105 f/4 L IS would be ideal on a FF body. You're right not wanting to spend on EF-S lenses. I traded up from a T2i to a 7D which I mostly use with an EF 24-70mm L lens which I love, but I often wonder whether I should have opted for a used 5D2 instead. Most APS-C shooters who have been taking pictures for a number of years, aspire to go full-frame. If you can get a 5Dc in excellent condition (say 40,000 actuations or less with no scuffs/marks) for 500-700 price range, then that's a better proposition than trading up to a newer Rebel.

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 11:05:00 AM »

I was looking at the specs for a 5Dc and it's really perfect for what I do. I'm not a sports photographer whatsoever. I prefer to do landscapes and portraits. I love the photos that come from a FF body. I like that the usable ISO for the 5Dc is WAY higher than my T1i. I'm not into DSLR filming anymore so I don't need a video mode in my camera. A used 5D is about the same as a T3i. An On-Camera flash isn't needed because I have a Canon 430ex II. I feel more safer having a better build quality.

Do you think my want for a 5Dc is complete sane? or is the 5Dc not a viable option anymore.

I used a 5D and 40D for 4 years and currently use a 5D3 and 7D, mostly because I do shoot sports and other things in ridiculously low light levels. Based on your description, it sounds like your plan is excellent. I don't know if you clean your sensor currently, but the 5D has no automatic dust removal and does seem to attract dust.

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 11:07:29 AM »
Just feeling a bit curious about upgrading (or in this case "downgrading") my Canon T1i.

I love my T1i to death, but I grown to dislike the noise at around ISO 800 and with a kit lens, I've found myself constantly having to push that high.

Many people say that I should get a better lens like the Canon 28mm 1.8 or Canon 17-55 2.8 but I do want to go FF some time in my life and I don't want to buy EF-S lenses seeing that will put me further away from purchasing a FF camera. (By that time, Canon would release the Canon 5d Mark IV x) I also don't want to buy EF lenses because I feel like they aren't used to their full potential on a Crop body.

Talking to my girlfriend's mother, who is a photographer, made me think about something. She's had a Canon XTi ever since it was first released. She never upgraded her body, yet she still is able to produce fantastic images from her camera.

I thought, What if I bought a used Canon 5D Classic now and build up my EF lens collection so by the time I can actually upgrade to a modern FF, I'd have a great collection of EF lenses.

I was looking at the specs for a 5Dc and it's really perfect for what I do. I'm not a sports photographer whatsoever. I prefer to do landscapes and portraits. I love the photos that come from a FF body. I like that the usable ISO for the 5Dc is WAY higher than my T1i. I'm not into DSLR filming anymore so I don't need a video mode in my camera. A used 5D is about the same as a T3i. An On-Camera flash isn't needed because I have a Canon 430ex II. I feel more safer having a better build quality.

Do you think my want for a 5Dc is complete sane? or is the 5Dc not a viable option anymore.

If you can get one in that price range, then no, you're absolutely fine.  Has anybody considered a used 1Ds Mark II?  You can get those for $900-$1000, although if you got a 5Dc for $500 well, let's not be stupid :)   
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 02:01:28 PM »
Getting a faster lens will be a long lasting purchase, and give you one or two stops gain.  This might be a issue with shallow depth of field, but it usually is not a problem except for very close images.
The 5D will also be a benefit, but its also getting up there in years, and there is a good possibility thast Canon will not support it at some time in the not too distant future.
I'd recommend going for a faster lens rather than going to FF and then buying a bunch of new lenses anyway, if only because your lenses will all be much wider and you will need longer ones.
Consider that you will need some new lenses as well as the body.  That 28mm f/1.8 lens produces a image similar to a 45mm image on your crop, so a 50mm f/1.8 would be the FF equivalent.

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 02:01:28 PM »

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 02:23:34 PM »
I think your plan makes a lot of sense.  I generally buy into the "glass before body" upgrade philosophy, but going from a crop body to a full frame body is an exception to this rule.  I went from 40D to 5D and hardly ever pick the 40D up anymore - reminds me that I should probably just go ahead and sell it.  The 5D is really really great.

If you get a 5D, I recommend getting the new 40/2.8 pancake.  Really perfect general purpose focal length (IMO) for full frame, and very sharp images even wide open.  Tiny, well-built and only $200 to boot!

Synomis192

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 03:58:05 PM »
Thanks for all the positive replies guys :D Glad, I'm not the only one who considered actually buying a 7 year old camera. I have another inquiry about the 5d.

I plan to buy the body only for now because it's pretty cheap. Ebay list $750 as the lowest price, haven't check craigslist or the FM forms though.

I know this is kind of really bad idea, but what's a good non-L EF lens that can work well with the Canon 5Dc. I'm asking about lenes like the Canon 28-135, Canon 28-105, or any other EF lenses. I'm not looking for EF Primes just yet, lots of vacations planned for the next 3 months so I'd rather purchase a Zoom lens for convenience. If didn't need to pay for college, I would have no problem with this but I'm stuck in school and I really have no choice :/
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underjammer

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 04:11:37 PM »
I love my T1i to death, but I grown to dislike the noise at around ISO 800 and with a kit lens, I've found myself constantly having to push that high.

I have no experience with the 5Dc's ISO noise, but appropriate exposure can have a huge effect on noise.  If you get a faster lens for your T1i, you might find yourself not having as much of an issue with it..  But a lot of people complain about the ISO at around that range even for the 7D, etc, so there's not much you can do some times...  When do you find yourself pushing the ISO, and find it lacking..?

Looking at the pictures on dpreview, it looks like the 5Dc will give you about 1.5(ish) stops of ISO over the T1i, which isn't necessarily a revolutionary advantage.

Many people say that I should get a better lens like the Canon 28mm 1.8 or Canon 17-55 2.8 but I do want to go FF some time in my life and I don't want to buy EF-S lenses seeing that will put me further away from purchasing a FF camera.

First off, if you are die-hard feeling that you won't buy an EF-S lens, because you eventually want to go full-frame, then by all means, I recommend you go full-frame, and no longer be limited by that mentality, because you really do need to expand your lenses to really take advantage of your camera, and to expand your skills.

If, though, you are just "thinking" that, and can be convinced otherwise, you should look at, if nothing else, the ultra-wide angle EF-S lenses (the 8-ish-20-ish mm zoom lenses)..  And check their price out NEW, and then check the going price of uses ones on ebay.  That will give you an idea of how much such a lens will "cost" you in terms of ownership, when eventually going full frame (assuming you don't wind up keeping a crop camera around..).  Then, consider if you'd be willing to buy one used, and your ownership cost will essentially approach zero, when it comes time to sell.

You can also watch lensrentals.com for their used lenses..  they are priced very well, and they keep them in tip-top shape, so you know you're getting a good used lens..

If you ask me, there's no reason NOT to buy an EF-S lens, if you have an EF-S camera.  In fact, it's rather silly to avoid EF-S lenses, for their obvious advantages:  cheaper (due to less glass..) and smaller/lighter!  I guess if you are huge, size doesn't matter..  but shoving 10 lenses in a bag adds up.

I also don't want to buy EF lenses because I feel like they aren't used to their full potential on a Crop body.

I'm not sure what you mean by EF lenses not being used to their full potential on an EF-S body..  Do you mean...
a)  if you buy a wide-ish walk around zoom like the 24-70mm 2.8 lens, and you're not able to get the full wide angle 24mm's out of it?  -  this is true..  But on the flip side, that 70mm becomes more like 110mm, so you gain on the other end..  To get wide angle on a crop body, you really need a dedicated wide angle EF-S lens, anyway..  (And to get wide angle on a full-frame, you really need something like the Canon 14mm..)
or
b)  the EF lenses throw a larger image circle, and you are "throwing some of that image circle away"..?  -  If you ask me, this is something to not think twice about..  I won't argue that the lens is going to be BIGGER, and you could do the same thing with a smaller EF-S lens..  But just because you're throwing away some image circle doesn't mean you're not using it to its full potential..  In fact, you're using the "sweet spot" of the lens, so you're actually getting more lens than you really paid for...  and when you do upgrade from your crop body to full frame, you might be like "what the heck...  now the edges look worse than they used to.."..  And then it'll be lens-upgrade time, and you'll be shelling out 1.5 to 2K for the next-best lens..
or
c)  that 1.2 aperture doesn't give you the same bokeh on a crop as on a full frame, when framing someone the same for portaits?  -  yup, you're right, and there's nothing you can do about it.. But you can still buy the EF lens now, and use it to take significantly "better" (aka different) images than you could have without it..  To really blow your mind with bokeh, regardless, you're going to be spending big $$, so it's not really something to fret about for the moment..  (Or just take a person and pull them way away from their background for the shot, I guess..)
or
d)  other reason you're thinking?  Those were the only ones I could think of..

Talking to my girlfriend's mother, who is a photographer, made me think about something. She's had a Canon XTi ever since it was first released. She never upgraded her body, yet she still is able to produce fantastic images from her camera.

What lenses does she have..?  Can you use/borrow any of them?  Because that's an EF-S camera..  What did she make you think about?  The 5Dc?  (PS I had that camera, too, and it was great..  The T1i (I have one as a "beater" camera..) has better ISO (about 1 stop advantage), and higher resolution..)

Do you think my want for a 5Dc is complete sane? or is the 5Dc not a viable option anymore.

There's surely nothing wrong with the 5Dc.  But they are getting old(er)..  So you really need to make sure you find one with a low-ish shutter count.  The cost of a shutter replacement is like 250-ish, maybe.  And I just read a post that indicated if the shutter count is over 100,000, they force you to replace another part (at and additional $200).  The 5D has a shutter life of 100,000, btw..  I'm not saying it's not worth the shutter replacement..  it's just another added cost on top of the "hey I'm buying this 5Dc for really cheap, aww yea!".  (If you grab one for 700, say, and wind up paying another 500 for shutter replacement soon down the road, that's $1200..)

But right, I digress..  Here's the rest of what you're going to need when you get your 5Dc..
a)  The 5Dc
b)  some lens you can do general photography with (be it the 24-105 or 24-70..) (or the 40mm pancake as someone recommended, but if it's only that, it's going to leave you very limited without other lenses..)
c)  a portait lens (canon 85 1.8, or maybe sigma 85 1.4.. at the minimum..)
d)  hopefully (b) will cover your landscape requirements, else you're looking at the 17-40, etc..

So you're still going to be needing to unload a lot of money on top of the 5Dc..

I might recommend before getting the 5D, maybe look into the Canon 85 1.8 (or the Sigma 85 1.4, if you can swing the $$)..  It's decently priced, and will be a great portrait lens for your T1i.  Heck, you should go out tomorrow and buy the Canon 50 1.8, if you don't have one.  It's like $100, and will give you a good idea of how the 85 1.8 will look on a full-frame..  But maybe you won't be able to get over how cheap that lens is, hence the 85 1.8 recommendation.

Anyway, right..  The 5Dc can be great, but don't necessarily push yourself away from your T1i before you actually give a fair chance, I guess?  That's my take.  You're limiting yourself by not getting lenses for the T1i.

I know this is kind of really bad idea, but what's a good non-L EF lens that can work well with the Canon 5Dc. I'm asking about lenes like the Canon 28-135, Canon 28-105, or any other EF lenses.

Supposedly the Tamron 28-70mm is an excellent and cheap one.  However, I would personally recommend a lens with image stabilization of some kind for your everyday lens..

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 05:07:46 PM »
I think your post expresses once again the real truth - that good photos are a first and foremost a function of the skill and imagination of the photographer. Sure it helps to have expensive equipment as well, but its mostly skill and talent you develop slowly over years.

I've seen awesome shots made with cheap cameras (I mean really cheap ! ) and plenty of boring stuff produced with state of the art.

If you view photography as a form of art and personal expression, it will put the importance of the tools into perspective.
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 05:28:45 PM »
Thanks for all the positive replies guys :D Glad, I'm not the only one who considered actually buying a 7 year old camera. I have another inquiry about the 5d.

I plan to buy the body only for now because it's pretty cheap. Ebay list $750 as the lowest price, haven't check craigslist or the FM forms though.

I know this is kind of really bad idea, but what's a good non-L EF lens that can work well with the Canon 5Dc. I'm asking about lenes like the Canon 28-135, Canon 28-105, or any other EF lenses. I'm not looking for EF Primes just yet, lots of vacations planned for the next 3 months so I'd rather purchase a Zoom lens for convenience. If didn't need to pay for college, I would have no problem with this but I'm stuck in school and I really have no choice :/
I would not pay more than $650 for a good used 5D classic.  Make sure its had the mirror fix.
A good used 28-135 for about $200 -$225 will be a good choice, however, as far as low light goes, you are going to be struggling with a slow lens.
Check your local Craigs list, and negotiate.  Many sellers have no clue, and ask far too much.

Synomis192

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »
Quote
When do you find yourself pushing the ISO, and find it lacking..?

Band concerts are where I find my self pushing the ISO to 1600. Also, I tend to hang out in dark areas with my friends. Like my friends don't like having a lot light in their rooms.

Quote
a)  if you buy a wide-ish walk around zoom like the 24-70mm 2.8 lens, and you're not able to get the full wide angle 24mm's out of it?  -  this is true..  But on the flip side, that 70mm becomes more like 110mm, so you gain on the other end..  To get wide angle on a crop body, you really need a dedicated wide angle EF-S lens, anyway..  (And to get wide angle on a full-frame, you really need something like the Canon 14mm..)
or
b)  the EF lenses throw a larger image circle, and you are "throwing some of that image circle away"..?  -  If you ask me, this is something to not think twice about..  I won't argue that the lens is going to be BIGGER, and you could do the same thing with a smaller EF-S lens..  But just because you're throwing away some image circle doesn't mean you're not using it to its full potential..  In fact, you're using the "sweet spot" of the lens, so you're actually getting more lens than you really paid for...  and when you do upgrade from your crop body to full frame, you might be like "what the heck...  now the edges look worse than they used to.."..  And then it'll be lens-upgrade time, and you'll be shelling out 1.5 to 2K for the next-best lens..
or
c)  that 1.2 aperture doesn't give you the same bokeh on a crop as on a full frame, when framing someone the same for portaits?  -  yup, you're right, and there's nothing you can do about it.. But you can still buy the EF lens now, and use it to take significantly "better" (aka different) images than you could have without it..  To really blow your mind with bokeh, regardless, you're going to be spending big $$, so it's not really something to fret about for the moment..  (Or just take a person and pull them way away from their background for the shot, I guess..)
or
d)  other reason you're thinking?  Those were the only ones I could think of..

A is what I was looking for. I tend to shoot wider than longer. If I were to get a 24-105 or 25-70, I'd feel like i'd be missing more on the wider end on my T1i. I've tried the 24-70 on my T1i when I was with my uncle. Every time there'd be a group photo, I'd constantly find myself stepping back farther than normal. I know that on a crop, the corners ares better than a Full Frame.

Quote
What lenses does she have..?  Can you use/borrow any of them?  Because that's an EF-S camera..  What did she make you think about?  The 5Dc?  (PS I had that camera, too, and it was great..  The T1i (I have one as a "beater" camera..) has better ISO (about 1 stop advantage), and higher resolution..)

She has the 18-55 and a Canon 50 1.8. She told me that even though her camera is an old camera, she gets the most out of it.  She made me think about buying the 5Dc because it's an older body, but it's still a great camera. I don't really need 18mps anyways, I'm not printing any posters or anything like that :D

Quote
Supposedly the Tamron 28-70mm is an excellent and cheap one.  However, I would personally recommend a lens with image stabilization of some kind for your everyday lens

I'd be willing to try the Tamron if I get the 5Dc. Got any good IS EF lens suggestions?

Thanks for being such a great help underjammer :D

I would not pay more than $650 for a good used 5D classic.  Make sure its had the mirror fix.
A good used 28-135 for about $200 -$225 will be a good choice, however, as far as low light goes, you are going to be struggling with a slow lens.
Check your local Craigs list, and negotiate.  Many sellers have no clue, and ask far too much.

Thanks, I'll check do my best to try to negotiate the price of the 5Dc. Thanks for the heads up. :]
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 06:10:45 PM »
You really need f/2.8 minimum for that type of low light, and f/1.8 or faster is best.  I have gone to primes for low light use with my 5D MK II at ISO 3200 and 6400.  I've used 12800 on my 1D MK IV, and tried it with a D800 but thats pushing too hard. 
With a 5D C, I'd recommend a 85mm f/1.8 as a low cost choice.  Fast Zooms are $$$$, even used ones are expensive. 

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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 08:11:45 PM »
I owned a Rebel XT then got a 5Dc. I loved the 5Dc and yes it can produce stunning images, however I have done ISO tests with it and the T2i and I found little or no difference in ISO capabilities.

If you want a step up in ISO performance, you need to go to a 5Dii. Thats what I'd recommend for you.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 05:45:34 AM by K-amps »
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Re: Canon 5dc, better than T1i?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 08:11:45 PM »