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Author Topic: 1DX - issues in low light at reception / Edit..use expansion pts, problem solved  (Read 11701 times)

Bosman

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Spot focus never gets turned on unless i can't get something to work with fine details else the contrast area is too small to sample for the focus system to be used regularly. Single point Af is the standard i have used for years. Canon needs contrast for focus and you decrease it in spot focus mode but like an eye or a diamond or shooting through branches or something it is necessary to have that smaller sampling area so the camera doesn't lock on to the wrong subject. Maybe the fact that the contrast area has motion at really slow shutter speeds leaving it confused a bit but then the flash beam assist should solve that one. I rarely use 1/15 sec for anything unless i want ot create an effect anyway. There is a point where ambient and flash are competing and you will get oof if the shutter speed is too slow but then when its night you can freeze almost anything with flash. Its not good to gamble below 1/40th or 1/60 when balancing out the light, at least that is what i find. I haven't experimented with expanding focus points but for sports and i found the 4 pt expansion to be the best for my results.
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mjcphoto

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Spot focus never gets turned on unless i can't get something to work with fine details else the contrast area is too small to sample for the focus system to be used regularly. Single point Af is the standard i have used for years. Canon needs contrast for focus and you decrease it in spot focus mode but like an eye or a diamond or shooting through branches or something it is necessary to have that smaller sampling area so the camera doesn't lock on to the wrong subject. Maybe the fact that the contrast area has motion at really slow shutter speeds leaving it confused a bit but then the flash beam assist should solve that one. I rarely use 1/15 sec for anything unless i want ot create an effect anyway. There is a point where ambient and flash are competing and you will get oof if the shutter speed is too slow but then when its night you can freeze almost anything with flash. Its not good to gamble below 1/40th or 1/60 when balancing out the light, at least that is what i find. I haven't experimented with expanding focus points but for sports and i found the 4 pt expansion to be the best for my results.

I guess I meant to say, single point mode (not spot).  Single point works great in low like on the 1D Mark III, but I've now learned that the 1DX needs expansion points to assist.  So far in tests it seems to work.
Regarding shutter speed during a reception with lighting (canon flash is fill on hot shoe/ quantum is triggered remotely as main light).  If there are windows in the room and the sun has set (it's dark outside), I'm almost always at 1/25-1/15 shutter so long as I'm not detecting any light on the floor within the meter.  This way you control what freezes with the flash, aside from when the subject head is in front of wall light or something similar. You end up not having to kick the ISO up so much and the images look nice and sharp.  Also fun to drag the shutter at 1/15 for creating nice motion by moving the camera and or lens if you're working with a zoom.

Bosman

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These are very helpful tips on how to use the camera. We should start threads for the 1dx and the 5dm3 sharing tips on what worked best in diff situations. It would just be nice to find things in one place, each camera having its own thread of course.
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Viggo

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These are very helpful tips on how to use the camera. We should start threads for the 1dx and the 5dm3 sharing tips on what worked best in diff situations. It would just be nice to find things in one place, each camera having its own thread of course.

That's a pretty good idea!!


BTW I would still like to know if anyone knows if dpreview is going to test or have published or when we'll see the results of the 1d X vs the D4. I have always read their tests and I would like to just for fun, although, I must say dpreview have dropped CONSIDERABLY in quality as a page over the last couple of years. USed to be my goto page, but now it seems outdated and boring.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 01:59:26 PM by Viggo »
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These are very helpful tips on how to use the camera. We should start threads for the 1dx and the 5dm3 sharing tips on what worked best in diff situations. It would just be nice to find things in one place, each camera having its own thread of course.

I would also very much appreciate such threads. I´m a non native speaker and a photographic layman, which is that
don´t dare to start one. I´m would certainly follow very closely the 5Dm3.


Bosman

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These are very helpful tips on how to use the camera. We should start threads for the 1dx and the 5dm3 sharing tips on what worked best in diff situations. It would just be nice to find things in one place, each camera having its own thread of course.

That's a pretty good idea!!


BTW I would still like to know if anyone knows if dpreview is going to test or have published or when we'll see the results of the 1d X vs the D4. I have always read their tests and I would like to just for fun, although, I must say dpreview have dropped CONSIDERABLY in quality as a page over the last couple of years. USed to be my goto page, but now it seems outdated and boring.
Done!
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opiuman

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Also http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml has a PDF that applies to the 1DX and 5D3 AF system that actually explains all the modes in detail.

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Bosman

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2012, 02:31:36 PM »
You must have set the 1d X up wrong, because even if you have a magic 7d and 1d3, the X is still way better. But to use that supersmall spot af will be a poor choice for lowlight and without expansion points the iTR tracking doesn't work. I find the 1d X to be without question the best camera on every level ever produced. I shoot in 12800 f1,4 light with 1/80s and the exposure and af works  fantastic!
I am def going to try expansion in receptions. Its just i expect failed images when shooting avail light at Large Apertures, so i shoot 2 or 3 of each situation sometimes.I may try expansion for larger apertures F4-F5.6 as it seems like this makes more sense than using it with dof below F2.8 but again, i will try it. I may do a whole wedding with 4 pt expansion. I just dont care for 8pt, anyone like 8pt?
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Viggo

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2012, 04:48:25 PM »
You must have set the 1d X up wrong, because even if you have a magic 7d and 1d3, the X is still way better. But to use that supersmall spot af will be a poor choice for lowlight and without expansion points the iTR tracking doesn't work. I find the 1d X to be without question the best camera on every level ever produced. I shoot in 12800 f1,4 light with 1/80s and the exposure and af works  fantastic!
I am def going to try expansion in receptions. Its just i expect failed images when shooting avail light at Large Apertures, so i shoot 2 or 3 of each situation sometimes.I may try expansion for larger apertures F4-F5.6 as it seems like this makes more sense than using it with dof below F2.8 but again, i will try it. I may do a whole wedding with 4 pt expansion. I just dont care for 8pt, anyone like 8pt?

I like 8pt, it gives me extra security when things go really fast. WAY better than Zone AF for me. And I can place f1,2 focus with obstacles in the way anyway as they just help, not take over. But with slight movement and/or in one direction, 4 works better.
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mjcphoto

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Okay, so I had an opportunity to try out expansion points in a dark reception setting.  Before I get into it, let me again say how flawlessly this camera performs outside, and in lower available light settings.  The tracking with AI servo is way more accurate than the 1DMK3 and better than the 1DIV.  And the low ISO noise I was getting with the 1DIV isn't present (I had to process noise in shots that were spot on exposure wise to begin with shot at ISO320 with the MKIV).  Backlit situations outside..no problem for the 1DX.

However, I'm still running into issues on a low lit dance floor where people are moving.  My 1DMKII's and IIN's would lock right onto that stuff historically.  And my 1DMKIII, it runs circles around the 1DX in THIS department (emphasis on THIS if you didn't catch it). 

Maybe this is something that can be addressed with firmware?  Perhaps it's a short coming of the sensor?  Again, it performs flawlessly in every other department!  It's incredible.  I just wish it would lock on as quick or even 1/2 as quick as the 1DMK3.  There has to be someone else out there who has noticed a lag.  I can't be the only one.  And believe me, I'm a huge 1DX fanboy!!!

My work around for the next wedding.  Use the 1DX all day long up until the dance floor opens up (in dark settings).  Then switch to the 1DMK3 so shots are not missed.  At this point I'm usually in the 500-640ISO range and the image quality is great (really just comes down to MP's and I'm cool with that, for now).

Thanks for listening,
Michael

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Okay, so I had an opportunity to try out expansion points in a dark reception setting.  Before I get into it, let me again say how flawlessly this camera performs outside, and in lower available light settings.  The tracking with AI servo is way more accurate than the 1DMK3 and better than the 1DIV.  And the low ISO noise I was getting with the 1DIV isn't present (I had to process noise in shots that were spot on exposure wise to begin with shot at ISO320 with the MKIV).  Backlit situations outside..no problem for the 1DX.

However, I'm still running into issues on a low lit dance floor where people are moving.  My 1DMKII's and IIN's would lock right onto that stuff historically.  And my 1DMKIII, it runs circles around the 1DX in THIS department (emphasis on THIS if you didn't catch it). 

Maybe this is something that can be addressed with firmware?  Perhaps it's a short coming of the sensor?  Again, it performs flawlessly in every other department!  It's incredible.  I just wish it would lock on as quick or even 1/2 as quick as the 1DMK3.  There has to be someone else out there who has noticed a lag.  I can't be the only one.  And believe me, I'm a huge 1DX fanboy!!!

My work around for the next wedding.  Use the 1DX all day long up until the dance floor opens up (in dark settings).  Then switch to the 1DMK3 so shots are not missed.  At this point I'm usually in the 500-640ISO range and the image quality is great (really just comes down to MP's and I'm cool with that, for now).

Thanks for listening,
Michael

Hi Michael - If You haven't had time to read through my post http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0 pretty much mirrors your experience.

If you haven't done so - drop your max fps to 10 and the ai-servo should track a lot better. Not as good as a 1Ds3 or even a 7D in the same situation but better then on 12fps.

Bosman

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Okay, so I had an opportunity to try out expansion points in a dark reception setting.  Before I get into it, let me again say how flawlessly this camera performs outside, and in lower available light settings.  The tracking with AI servo is way more accurate than the 1DMK3 and better than the 1DIV.  And the low ISO noise I was getting with the 1DIV isn't present (I had to process noise in shots that were spot on exposure wise to begin with shot at ISO320 with the MKIV).  Backlit situations outside..no problem for the 1DX.

However, I'm still running into issues on a low lit dance floor where people are moving.  My 1DMKII's and IIN's would lock right onto that stuff historically.  And my 1DMKIII, it runs circles around the 1DX in THIS department (emphasis on THIS if you didn't catch it). 

Maybe this is something that can be addressed with firmware?  Perhaps it's a short coming of the sensor?  Again, it performs flawlessly in every other department!  It's incredible.  I just wish it would lock on as quick or even 1/2 as quick as the 1DMK3.  There has to be someone else out there who has noticed a lag.  I can't be the only one.  And believe me, I'm a huge 1DX fanboy!!!

My work around for the next wedding.  Use the 1DX all day long up until the dance floor opens up (in dark settings).  Then switch to the 1DMK3 so shots are not missed.  At this point I'm usually in the 500-640ISO range and the image quality is great (really just comes down to MP's and I'm cool with that, for now).

Thanks for listening,
Michael

Hi Michael - If You haven't had time to read through my post http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0 pretty much mirrors your experience.

If you haven't done so - drop your max fps to 10 and the ai-servo should track a lot better. Not as good as a 1Ds3 or even a 7D in the same situation but better then on 12fps.
Wow, this is a thread i havent read til now. I do have a (the new Canon word "phenomena") where my 5dm3 wont move the lens and i have ot wrack it to a close place of focus and it will work again. Kinda silly this happens now and then.
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mjcphoto

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception / in single point or expansion
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2012, 11:34:31 AM »
Okay, so I had an opportunity to try out expansion points in a dark reception setting.  Before I get into it, let me again say how flawlessly this camera performs outside, and in lower available light settings.  The tracking with AI servo is way more accurate than the 1DMK3 and better than the 1DIV.  And the low ISO noise I was getting with the 1DIV isn't present (I had to process noise in shots that were spot on exposure wise to begin with shot at ISO320 with the MKIV).  Backlit situations outside..no problem for the 1DX.

However, I'm still running into issues on a low lit dance floor where people are moving.  My 1DMKII's and IIN's would lock right onto that stuff historically.  And my 1DMKIII, it runs circles around the 1DX in THIS department (emphasis on THIS if you didn't catch it). 

Maybe this is something that can be addressed with firmware?  Perhaps it's a short coming of the sensor?  Again, it performs flawlessly in every other department!  It's incredible.  I just wish it would lock on as quick or even 1/2 as quick as the 1DMK3.  There has to be someone else out there who has noticed a lag.  I can't be the only one.  And believe me, I'm a huge 1DX fanboy!!!

My work around for the next wedding.  Use the 1DX all day long up until the dance floor opens up (in dark settings).  Then switch to the 1DMK3 so shots are not missed.  At this point I'm usually in the 500-640ISO range and the image quality is great (really just comes down to MP's and I'm cool with that, for now).

Thanks for listening,
Michael

Hi Michael - If You haven't had time to read through my post http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0 pretty much mirrors your experience.

If you haven't done so - drop your max fps to 10 and the ai-servo should track a lot better. Not as good as a 1Ds3 or even a 7D in the same situation but better then on 12fps.

Thanks, yeah...I've been shooting RAW plus Large JPG to the 2nd card so my fps isn't at 12.  Still many issues in low light when using various canon flashes (assist beam enabled)...on camera flash is set as my fill flash.  Off camera, main light is from Q flash triggered by pocket wizard.  Again, the 1DMK3 is almost flawless in this situation!  1DMK4, very slow and almost clumsy, not picking up focus...kinda frustrating...I suppose it's a trade off of having everything else excellent!  And I have work around for now.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:36:11 AM by mjcphoto »

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception / in single point or expansion
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2012, 11:34:31 AM »

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2012, 03:48:48 PM »
Use the AF-point expansion instead of one single point. The 1D X performs very well under low lightning conditions.

Amen. There is so little area contained inside of a single AF point that its just a little shaky dark area to the camera. Almost impossible to focus no matter how good the camera.

One point AF in the dark is like trying to look through a long narrow tube at a scene rushing by out of the car window. No context, and it's almost impossible for even our eyes to focus or comprehend what is going on. But without the tube its easy for our eyes to focus out a window or in the dark

The extra points help the camera in the same way.
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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2012, 03:52:43 PM »
Use the AF-point expansion instead of one single point. The 1D X performs very well under low lightning conditions.

Amen. There is so little area contained inside of a single AF point that its just a little shaky dark area to the camera. Almost impossible to focus no matter how good the camera.

One point AF in the dark is like trying to look through a long narrow tube at a scene rushing by out of the car window. No context, and it's almost impossible for even our eyes to focus or comprehend what is going on. But without the tube its easy for our eyes to focus out a window or in the dark

The extra points help the camera in the same way.

Still hunts and takes a while with 8 point expansion.  Much, much, much slower than the 1DMK3 in this situation.  I'll just use the MK3 for the darker reception halls for now. 

thanks though,
Michael

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Re: 1DX - issues in low light at reception
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2012, 03:52:43 PM »