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Author Topic: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports  (Read 6029 times)

Wilmark

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 03:25:40 PM »
Avoid the 2X TC with any long and fast focusing application. The 2X TC degrades the autofocus speed by about 75%. And further you will take the F stop to 8 and then newer cams wont focus. The best is to use the 1.5X TC if you have to. Cater for this with what you max FL is going to be. The IQ with the 1.5x is far superior as well.

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 03:25:40 PM »

Nate

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2012, 04:39:42 PM »
I have the 7D and the 70-200mm Mk2, and a 2x MK111.

I would not normally use those three together. It wont be that fast focusing. In fact shooting bikes on the IoM at the TT I would prefocus and take the shot when the bike got there. For snowboarders I think the 7D and the 70-200 would be good. Its a pretty fast, bright, sharp combination.

I also have a 1Dx and understand the 5D111 is pretty good on auto focus etc. My first choice from your kit for snowboarders would be the 5D with the 70-200 and if you can't get close stick the 2X on as well. I find I can crop much harder on the FF and still get better results than I would with the 7D. Dont think the 7D is poor, but its not the same as the next generation.

Hope this helps.

Can I get a sample with the 7D 70-200 2xTC? I am interested in how bad is the IQ compared to w/o TC
5D3, 17-40 mm L, 24-70 mm L, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 50 mm 1.4, 2x 600EX-RT

Nate

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2012, 04:45:17 PM »

Nate, That Sounds Awesome!

The 7D would be a great 2nd body for what you want to do.  It has the reach, and a very good AF system. I've shot some skiers coming at me in the middle of the mountain, so I didn't need the reach that you're talking about, such as shooting form the bottom of the hill or helicopter.  But, one thing that I would add, is that when you're shooting from that far away, the AF system should have time to focus, as opposed to shooting "on the mountain" and having a ski racer busting by a gate.

With a zoom, you will have a greater oppurtunity to shoot the skiers for a longer period of time.  First you'll zoom in all the way and as the skiers approach you, you will zoom out to get more shots as you keep them in your viewfinder longer.

With a long fixed lens, you will have the skier in and out of your FOV fairly quickly, unless of course you're shooting for the purpose of a particular jump or drop-off.

Actually, the 200-400mm +1.4X@560mm would be perfect for this.  However, it's not out yet and I'm sure it will be very expensive.  The other choices I would consider would be the 100-400mm, or the 70-200mm with 2X as you mentioned.  The 70-200mm is better at the shorter end and the 100-400 is better at 400mm.
The AF is probably faster on the 100-400 since it doesn't have the extender. I don't own the 100-400, but I do own the 70-200 II and 2X. Like I mentioned above, if you're that far away from the skiers (bottom of hill or helicopter), then I don't think the slower AF with the 2X will matter.  I will add that IS may help in the helicopter, although I'm not sure, as I've never shot out of a helicopter before.

I probably wouldn't buy the 100-400 just for this if you already own the 70-200+2x (probably better weather-sealed), since they're fairly close enough.  I would consider a 100-400II if that ever comes out.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=7&API=2&LensComp=113&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=7&APIComp=0

I'll see if I have any 70-200mm II +2X action shots when I get home tonight.

Rich

Thanks! That was informative.
I dont want to spend too much money, thats why I would prefer buying a body with TC not a lens is because I want to have a second body (besides my 5D3) just in case.

Did you shot with the TC in the snow? if yes did it had a hard time focusing in almost 0 contrast?

I am looking forward for your samples.
5D3, 17-40 mm L, 24-70 mm L, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 50 mm 1.4, 2x 600EX-RT

Nate

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2012, 04:46:11 PM »
Also thanks so far for the other replays!
5D3, 17-40 mm L, 24-70 mm L, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 50 mm 1.4, 2x 600EX-RT

TexPhoto

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2012, 05:53:37 PM »
I have a 7D and  5D3.  I think they make a really nice combination (as did the 7D and 5D2).  I was always impressed with the 7D for sports.  A few months back my 7D broke, and while it was off for repairs, I got a great deal on a slightly used 1D4.  It's great, but not so much better than my 7D that I understand the price difference.  Now that my 7D is back, my 1D4 will head off to eBay.


dhofmann

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2012, 08:10:36 PM »
Here are some photos taken with the T2i (similar sensor as the 7D) + 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM + 2x TC II (not III). The "original size" is pixel for pixel but cropped.
t2i

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 09:45:07 PM »

Thanks! That was informative.
I dont want to spend too much money, thats why I would prefer buying a body with TC not a lens is because I want to have a second body (besides my 5D3) just in case.

Did you shot with the TC in the snow? if yes did it had a hard time focusing in almost 0 contrast?

I am looking forward for your samples.

Nate, I just looked through my shots and you're going to be disappointed as they're all with the MKIV and 300 f/2.8L IS +1.4x or 2X, and my 7D shots are with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II +1.4X.

I will tell you that you do lose some IQ with the 2X as previously stated, and it does slow down the AF by 75% according to Canon.  I would not recommend it for fast action that will zoom by you, like downhill skiing, slalom or boarder-cross as that would be too aggressive for this combination, however your usage sounds like powder skiing from far away with the subject coming towards you, and not zooming by.  That's why I'm saying that I think it could handle it. 

Do you already own the 70-200mm II?  I would definitely recommend the 7D for a backup crop body for sports.  The 100-400mm is a possibility too, especially @400mm.  Renting both lenses may also be a good idea.  I've seen some great shots of the Blue Angles with the 100-400mm from Air Shows, with a low contrast background and it performs admirably.

The Skiing shots I had were with the 1D-MKIV and bare 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II and I didn't have any problem with the low contrast snow because I was able to focus on their ski jacket.

Sorry Nate, as I know that this is not what you're looking for, but all I found were some test shots with the 7D and 70-200mm II and 2X, below.

All with the 7D:
The 1st image is with the bare 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II @200mm f/9
The 2nd image is with 2X @400mm f/9
The 3rd is with 2X @400mm f/5.6
The 4th is with 2X @400mm f/5.6

Rich
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 10:03:12 PM by Richard Lane »

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 09:45:07 PM »

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 11:33:27 PM »
I have a 7D and  5D3.  I think they make a really nice combination (as did the 7D and 5D2).  I was always impressed with the 7D for sports.  A few months back my 7D broke, and while it was off for repairs, I got a great deal on a slightly used 1D4.  It's great, but not so much better than my 7D that I understand the price difference.  Now that my 7D is back, my 1D4 will head off to eBay.

There's actually a HUGE difference between the 1D4 and 7D for sports.  You have to know the settings.  If you do, you'll understand the price difference.  Not to mention IQ differences.
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Nate

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 05:44:20 AM »

Nate, I just looked through my shots and you're going to be disappointed as they're all with the MKIV and 300 f/2.8L IS +1.4x or 2X, and my 7D shots are with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II +1.4X.

I will tell you that you do lose some IQ with the 2X as previously stated, and it does slow down the AF by 75% according to Canon.  I would not recommend it for fast action that will zoom by you, like downhill skiing, slalom or boarder-cross as that would be too aggressive for this combination, however your usage sounds like powder skiing from far away with the subject coming towards you, and not zooming by.  That's why I'm saying that I think it could handle it. 

Do you already own the 70-200mm II?  I would definitely recommend the 7D for a backup crop body for sports.  The 100-400mm is a possibility too, especially @400mm.  Renting both lenses may also be a good idea.  I've seen some great shots of the Blue Angles with the 100-400mm from Air Shows, with a low contrast background and it performs admirably.

The Skiing shots I had were with the 1D-MKIV and bare 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II and I didn't have any problem with the low contrast snow because I was able to focus on their ski jacket.

Sorry Nate, as I know that this is not what you're looking for, but all I found were some test shots with the 7D and 70-200mm II and 2X, below.

All with the 7D:
The 1st image is with the bare 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II @200mm f/9
The 2nd image is with 2X @400mm f/9
The 3rd is with 2X @400mm f/5.6
The 4th is with 2X @400mm f/5.6

Rich

Thanks, I was also interested in IQ and at f/9 the IQ is pretty good. I didn't expect it to be as good.

Yes I own the 70-200 and I dont want to buy another zoom lens for the moment. I live in Hungary where I dont have a big variety of lens renting.

So I think I stick to a 2nd body.
1DIV is out of my budget but 1DIII is the same price as the 7D...Is the 1D that much better?
The only problem is, that I carry most of the things with me. Usually 3 lenses 2 flashes 1 tripod and some accessories. The reason is that usually I always need the lens that I left home...So the only thing that I dont like is that the 1D weights twice as much as the 7D.
5D3, 17-40 mm L, 24-70 mm L, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 50 mm 1.4, 2x 600EX-RT

Skulker

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 12:16:40 PM »

Can I get a sample with the 7D 70-200 2xTC? I am interested in how bad is the IQ compared to w/o TC

There may be two attached, its the first time I've tried an attachment so maybe not?

I've had to reduce the Jpeg quality to get them on here, but you should see the basic quality I have been achiving with this combination. You may well be able to do better.

Edit

 to say the full size files dont really bear pixel peeking, but they are pretty much as shot, I thought this would be what you wanted, and they are 100% crops

and the birdy is 1/125 @ f6.3, iso 1000, 400mm  and was used by the BBC on about 7 pages of its website. :-)

The little Badger is 1/640 @ f7.1, iso500 , 400mm and has never been seen in public.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 12:31:26 PM by Skulker »
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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 07:31:53 PM »
Thanks, I was also interested in IQ and at f/9 the IQ is pretty good. I didn't expect it to be as good.

Yes I own the 70-200 and I dont want to buy another zoom lens for the moment. I live in Hungary where I dont have a big variety of lens renting.

So I think I stick to a 2nd body.
1DIV is out of my budget but 1DIII is the same price as the 7D...Is the 1D that much better?
The only problem is, that I carry most of the things with me. Usually 3 lenses 2 flashes 1 tripod and some accessories. The reason is that usually I always need the lens that I left home...So the only thing that I dont like is that the 1D weights twice as much as the 7D.

I don't have the 1DMIII, but some people prefer it over the 7D.  I can say that the MKIV is definitely a step up from the 7D.

In my opinion:  Lets say that I rated the 1DX to be the best right now with a 10 out of a 10 rating.
The MKIV would equal 9 out of 10.
The MKIII would be an 8 out of 10.
The 7D would be a 7.5 out of 10.

1D-MKIII (1155g): 1.3X crop, only 10MP, 10fps, Pro-body, better weather-sealing, heavier.
7D (820g): 1.6X crop, 18MP, 8fps, Pro-consumer, lighter, Video, pop-up flash

Personally, I would go for the 7D due to the longer crop factor and higher resolution 18MP.

When using the 1.4X extender try to stop-down 1 extra stop if possible to f/5.6
When using the 2X extender try to stop down 2/3 extra-stop if possible to f/7.1
The Diffraction Limited Aperture (DLA) on the 7D is f/7

At 100 meters, your DOF on the 7D @400mm will be 17m, which will be pretty good to keep your skiers in focus.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Rich
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 09:01:34 PM by Richard Lane »

Nate

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2012, 08:04:54 AM »
Thank you for the replays and thank you guys for the sampels!

I think I will go then with a 7D.

My last question is.
Which has better IQ the 7D+70-200+1.4 TC III or the 5D3+70-200+2 TC III?
How much faster would be the auto focus for the 7D setup?
5D3, 17-40 mm L, 24-70 mm L, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 50 mm 1.4, 2x 600EX-RT

heptagon

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2012, 04:18:00 PM »
Which has better IQ the 7D+70-200+1.4 TC III or the 5D3+70-200+2 TC III?
How much faster would be the auto focus for the 7D setup?
The 7D has a higher pixel density and the 1.4 TC has better contrast and higher F-stop, so that would mean sharper pictures. I don't know about noise though but i guess after all it will be better than the 5D setup.

Focusing with the 1.4x should take two times as long as without TC and with the 2x it should take four times as long. (from heresay) I have never seen actual measurements on that though. Both setups still might be fast enough for you. If you can pre-focus it's no big issue but if you need focusing shot for shot in a series it might be just too slow.

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Re: Autofocus of 50D/7D with 2x III TC and 70-200 2.8 IS II for sports
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2012, 04:18:00 PM »