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Author Topic: Question about RAW  (Read 9335 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 11:04:15 AM »
Are Picture Settings (Landscape, Portrait etc, i.e. in-camera sharpness, contrast etc. adjustments) applied in RAW or is this only for JPEG (i.e. heavier DIGIC-processed files) ?

Importing RAW in any RAW editor applies certain settings (software manufacturers work on this every day, skitron). Now, once imported in one RAW editor (DPP f.i.) can I get the original RAW file (as delivered from the camera) back out of the editor (not from the CF) like an export and import this "precious original Canon CR.2 RAW" into another RAW-editor (like LR, or Aperture). I know, this doesn't make me a better photographer, but would be interesting in changing RAW-editing systems and reworking some files.

Like most other settings (the exception being Highlight Tone Priority), the Picture Style setting for the shot is written to the RAW metadata without affecting the RAW image data.  If you open the image in DPP, the in-camera setting will be automatically selected for the image (and applied during conversion), but you can also change it in DPP with no effect on the RAW image data.

RAW converters do not alter the RAW image data - none of them do, that's the point of a RAW file.  So, you can always get the original RAW file back out.  Of all the RAW editors, only DPP modifies the RAW file itself - but only the metadata.  The other converters (ACR, DxO, etc.), write the conversion settings to 'sidecar' files (usually linked in a behind-the-scenes database).  So, if you convert a RAW image with one converter, you can later process the image with a different converter and you'll be starting from the same original image. 

not long ago I was told that RAW gets you a better RAW than RAW+JPG

I think that's wrong, but maybe someone here knows why this person had that idea in his mind; my guess is that it might have been so, maybe, in something like "nikon cameras from 1999", or some other early step in the evolution of RAW

RAW gets you the same RAW as RAW+JPG (but shooting RAW alone gives more RAW than RAW+JPG - i.e., you have a higher burst capacity, although nowhere near as high as JPG alone).  Not all RAW is created equal, though - for example, older Nikon cameras applied lossy compression to the RAW data (newer ones give you the option of compressed or uncompressed).

Help me understand this then.  When i shoot with the wrong white balance setting (lets say its set at AWB when the lighting is tungsten), why is there less play (fine tuning) room in lightroom when the image is overly red?  I know what you said is supposidly right but getting the right color balance is much more difficult and always feeling muddier than when i get the right WB.  In lightroom, it will go from being real warm to real cold in just a small (shiftkey + downarrow) move.

Great question - and I have no idea.  ???  I'd guess it has to do with the way LR applies the WB setting from the metadata.  Adobe software does other 'stealth' alterations (e.g. ACR applies some NR even if you have NR turned off).  I haven't noticed any reduced latitude for color temperature alterations with AWB-shot tungsten scenes in DxO - I still have to drag the slider quite a ways to cool off the image.

My processing goes much faster and to me looks better when I am closer to the mark.  Maybe the original 5d isn't as accurate as the mark2 AWB.  AWB is always way off on my camera in tungsten situations.

I think there's no 'right' or 'wrong' workflow - even though the in-camera WB setting does not affect the RAW image data, having it close may save time (e.g. if you know you're going to set a bacth of images to Cloudy in post, setting it in-camera saves a step in post).  So, what goes faster for you is 'right' at least for you, but clearly not for prestonpalmer.

I don't know how far off the original 5D is with AWB under tungsten...but I really hope Canon didn't try to improve it with the 5DII, because if they did try to improve it, they failed miserably.  :P   (Or the 5D was way, way, way off, and they improved it significantly, leaving the 5DII only way, way off...so maybe the 5DIII will merely be way off?!?)  Regardless, the 5DII delivers very orange images with AWB under tungsten.
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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 11:04:15 AM »

skitron

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2011, 12:21:43 PM »
Hope that makes sense.

Yes, there are differences in processing between in-camera and DPP...it's doing a better job of the JPG conversion.

That makes sense and I'll probably continue to shoot only RAW and just mess with the color temp and balance in-cam and leave the rest to DPP, That seemed to be working great and LOL now I know why. Thanks again for your input.
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autochrome

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2011, 05:05:47 PM »
For reference, the tags associated with the CR2 files, and their descriptions (the ones that were reverse engineered so far that is), are included here:

http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/

Also covered is information on the sRAW and mRAW format. It's mostly useful to software engineers and researchers (the section on demosaicing is specially juicy), but it goes into some depth in explaining some key concepts.

John Smith

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 07:08:20 AM »
not long ago I was told that RAW gets you a better RAW than RAW+JPG

I think that's wrong, but maybe someone here knows why this person had that idea in his mind; my guess is that it might have been so, maybe, in something like "nikon cameras from 1999", or some other early step in the evolution of RAW

anybody?

I don't see it helping any, beside a higher FPS.

skitron

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 11:06:16 PM »
I posted this in the software section but will also follow up here since I started this thread.

I bought the PhaseONE Capture One Pro 6 RAW processor software and tried it out tonight. It renders in a totally different league than in-cam or DPP. The difference is literally bigger than getting a new L over a kit lens to my eyes, no kidding.
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branden

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2011, 03:54:51 PM »
Cool -- post some examples! I'm eager to see. Thanks

bvukich

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2011, 04:08:45 PM »
Cool -- post some examples! I'm eager to see. Thanks

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2011, 04:08:45 PM »

skitron

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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2011, 04:25:00 PM »
I'll see if I can post some shots over the weekend. The biggest two things I noticed are the color renditions and sharpening/NR.

Colors are absolutely amazing. I'll post a pic of one of my guitars that has 24K gold plated hardware that I never could get to look right until Capture One. Also, skin and hair tones same thing.

Second is the sharpening and NR. DPP will "out sharpen/NR" it at first glance, but when looking at details in the bokeh, DPP is not doing well at all in comparison. Meanwhile Capture One nails it and the bokeh still looks great when sharpen/NR and DPP never gets there even with as similar as possible settings. Also, DPP loses more detail at similar NR levels. I'll post crops of the afforementioned guitar that show it.

I would also encourage you to download their 30 day demo and try for yourself! They have two versions (pro, light) and either can be installed using the single download. Plus the demo can be activated without uninstalling/reinstalling.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 04:41:36 PM by skitron »
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Re: Question about RAW
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2011, 04:25:00 PM »