April 19, 2014, 06:56:47 PM

Author Topic: The Mirrorless Future  (Read 13730 times)

AmbientLight

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2012, 07:57:19 AM »
For street photography I would like a small, really stealthy Canon with excellent manual focus capability delivering image quality similar to a Leica, of course for a Canon price tag  8).

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2012, 07:57:19 AM »

Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2012, 03:18:45 AM »
For street photography .. a small stealthy .. excellent image quality
I'm considering the Sony RX1: FF mirrorless with fixed 35 Zeiss MF-AF lens and optional OVF-EVF.

AmbientLight

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2012, 04:27:13 PM »
The Sony's size is certainly what I am looking for. The only issue is that I have no idea just how responsive the camera is. Nevertheless prime Zeiss glass in a very useful focal length and a nice full-frame sensor are quite appealing. I also hope that it allows for really quiet operation.

@!ex

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2012, 05:33:05 PM »
The Sony's size is certainly what I am looking for. The only issue is that I have no idea just how responsive the camera is. Nevertheless prime Zeiss glass in a very useful focal length and a nice full-frame sensor are quite appealing. I also hope that it allows for really quiet operation.

It has a leaf shutter, so it is silent (you can add an artificial shutter sound if you want).

RS2021

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2012, 07:58:22 PM »
@Tcapp- As a wedding photographer, a mirrorless probably isn't of much use to you. These camera's are designed for street photographers and people who want DSLR image quality without the bulk. It's just another tool, no more, no less.

Sure, I understand that. That is a very very small niche. But what the OP is talking about is totally doing away with the current DSLR design and having everything be mirrorless. No more mirrors in anything. I don't see the point in that. He said that the 1dx is the last mirrored camera he will ever buy. Unless he is specifically an undercover street photographer, it doesn't make sense to me.

I wasn’t suggesting “Doing away” with mirrored, reflex-based systems by next Wednesday. I promise.  :)

I was resolute, and still am, that my 1DX will be my last, mirrored, sub-medium format flagship (wording chosen carefully there)  ;).

My original post was a tongue-in-cheek musing (hence the “calf-on-the-conveyer-belt” reference) as to when Canon may feel the heat to move decisively on replacing the "mirrorbox" in a Full frame body in the face of emerging competition, rag-tag as they may be now.   

Don’t get me wrong, “mirrorbox” is a reliable platform, last century technology it may be. It works. But this in no way should preclude us or Canon from moving the ball further down the line; and without healthy competition and criticism there will be no innovation. I don’t’ resent mirrorbox’s current existence. But I do hope for its accelerated exit. 

I have no doubt that when SLR’s made their debut, they were derided by good many old pro’s. I can hear them saying “you can’t see the image when the mirror is up!”; “what’s that abominable slap sound!”; “A curtain shutter! How tacky!”; “Too many moving parts”.  I think some of the righteous defense of the SLR mirrorbox I saw here, (and some of those indignant posts have magically disappeared as someone else noted earlier) is no different from those early push-backs to change.

I use “mirrorless” here as a loose term encompassing a motley crew of possibilities that may eventually supplant the current system that “moves the mirror out of the way to take a shot”.  I don’t mean a single approach…clearly this in part involves autofocus related issues, EVF and alternatives (current, pipeline, or R&D stage)…I don’t know what the final configuration or the future will be.

But one thing is clear.

To be intentionally cheesy, there is “a great disturbance in the Force” ;) 

Evidence… Nikon 1, Canon M, Sony, Fuji, and an assorted group of offerings with varying features… clearly there is “directional” movement.

The offerings may be substandard during these early stages and they may not hit all the buttons and check all the boxes, but we are seeing them evolve and they will eventually hit the viable combination. So Canon, despite the virtuous admonishments here, will also move ….they will have to. 

When mirrorless does get established (and it will), and becomes the new standard bearer (and it will be), I am certain all the righteous naysayers here will shamelessly jump ship to mirrorless and extoll its virtue and defend its superiority as they do for the mirrored systems now. I will welcome that with a wink ;)
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Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2012, 05:56:31 PM »
The only issue is that I have no idea just how responsive the (Sony RX1) camera is.
Focus acquisition time is reported to be 150 msec. (0.15 sec).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 06:01:04 PM by Bengt Nyman »

ronderick

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »
The FF sensor in a body like the Fujifilm XPro-1 would be very desirable for enthusiasts who want a light camera body with a decent number of lens options. It's even better if you can fit it in a small shoulder bag, because you really don't have that much room if ur going with your wife and kids on a family outing.

Given the small body, I would prefer OVF over EVF, since it's less demanding on the battery.

However, I doubt that you can make something the size of a Leica M9 to be weatherproof and durable on the level of 1D...

Oh well, we can still wish.
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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »

AmbientLight

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 05:42:38 AM »
Focus acquisition time is reported to be 150 msec. (0.15 sec).

150 msec????? This is sooo s---l---o---w. I guess that camera is not for me after all.

Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 02:32:54 PM »
Breaking: Hasselblad will release a high-end mirrorless camera | Photo Rumors

Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2012, 02:35:55 PM »
The FF sensor in a body like the Fujifilm XPro-1 would be very desirable
Look at the new Sony RX1.

RS2021

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2012, 02:52:34 PM »
Like I said earlier...there is "a great disturbance in the Force" :)
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept” - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2012, 04:46:16 AM »
150 msec????? This is sooo s---l---o---w. I guess that camera is not for me after all.
It's in the order of a young mans reaction time. Therefore a young man with a Sony RX1 would keep up with an old man with a DSLR.

AmbientLight

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 09:45:42 AM »
Let's suppose my own reaction time would be 150 msec and the camera would add another 50 msec, then most of the time taken is my own reaction being what it is. Now if you take a look at a 300 msec total you are in a totally different area and no, I won't be able to optimize a lot by a quicker reaction on the photographer's side.

Just think about seeing an interesting situation and wanting to take a photo and because of the camera wasting time on top of your own reaction time the moment is just gone.

That's no good. Staying within a sufficiently short timeframe from looking at a scene to the picture being taken is the key element.

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 09:45:42 AM »

Bengt Nyman

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2012, 12:04:12 PM »
That's no good.
I agree with you. I am making a case for mirrorless because of its many other advantages. But you are right; the time to focus and some buyers fear of EVF is still a hold back. However, both of these are in the path of better chip technology which the semiconductor industry is very good at. I believe that in a couple of years it will be a mostly mirrorless market with a few DSLR holdovers.
I am prepared to buy a Sony RX1 right now. If there was an RX2 with interchangeable lenses or even with a hard mounted Zeiss 50-200 zoom I would buy that too.
 

ronderick

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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2012, 11:11:03 PM »
The FF sensor in a body like the Fujifilm XPro-1 would be very desirable
Look at the new Sony RX1.

RX1 reminds me of Fujifilm X100. It's testing the waters to see if the market can accept the innovation. Sony's attempt is a big step forward for a small body with FF sensor, but it shows that there's still a problem with the price tag. If an all-in-one package comes for a price around 3,000, I could not imagine a body that accepts interchangeable lenses to be less than that - not to mention the new line of lenses designed to interact with the FF sensor.

Would it be cheaper than a Leica with 50mm summarit? Sure. However, there's still going to be a huge distance between that and what the average shooter would consider affordable.

Of course, we can see how the sales of RX1 turns out, but gut feeling says don't be too optimistic about it.
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Re: The Mirrorless Future
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2012, 11:11:03 PM »