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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]  (Read 34121 times)

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: August 22, 2012, 02:54:32 AM »
APS-H Please! :D

On the 7D, APS-H would ONLY be acceptable if it was accompanied by a versatile APS-C crop mode that worked properly with all EF-S lenses. Personally, I would prefer if APS-H was left to a higher-end body, preferably equipped with a multi-point f/8 AF sensor. ;)
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: August 22, 2012, 02:54:32 AM »

surfing_geek

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: August 22, 2012, 08:06:59 AM »
sounds like a fair replacement to me.  i wish this was true, but gut feeling is that someone has just sent in their wishlist.


let's hope when it does come though, it remains at APS-C!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: August 22, 2012, 12:49:20 PM »
If Canon isn't treading over some Nikon patent for a larger sensor creating a smaller image circle similar to the aps-c then i hope they do it, making the camera very flexible. The only thing would be even if they did this the ef-s lenses still wouldn't work with it is my understanding.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: August 22, 2012, 12:56:40 PM »
APS-H Please! :D

On the 7D, APS-H would ONLY be acceptable if it was accompanied by a versatile APS-C crop mode that worked properly with all EF-S lenses.

no argument there, if 7D2 is aimed at approximately the same market as 7D.  Unfortunately, an APS-C crop mode would not be capable of reducing the size of the mirror, a dimmentional challenge that limits the possibility of using the short-back focus lenses with the larger "H" sensor. I haven't seen any evidence that such a challenge can be overcome. It maybe possible I don't know - I just haven't seen evidence or desire on Canon's part to do it.  I'm aware that some have even modified the EF-S 10-22mm lens for use on a FF (at 10mm the mirror strikes the lens).     so maybe it can be done I dont know. 

maybe the body could operate in some sort of mirrorless mode to use the S lenses, but I dont' see that catching on either.

The biggest benefit, to me, of a crop mode is to reduce the size of the data transfer to increase fps, which is not necessary in the 7D world because of the dual processor and moderate pixel count.  There is no IQ advantage that I can think of -- throwing away pixels is easy enough to do in post.

Assuming that the mechanical challenge can be overcome, the point of a crop mode on such a camera would be to hide the imperfections outside of the image circle of the "S" lenses.  Some sort of auto-detect would be necessary, along with a dual mount capability with the white index mark that we have today.  That part is certainly doable. it just doesn't seem likely to me, that Canon would do this, as it would be too expensive for the market that depends on the S lenses.

Quote
Personally, I would prefer if APS-H was left to a higher-end body, preferably equipped with a multi-point f/8 AF sensor. ;)

yea, and without APS-C mode :D  which this segment would not care about.  The question that still bugs me is "what is the 2nd body that Canon expects the pro wildlife togs to carry"?  These are the togs most likely to appreciate a 2x converter on a 600mm f/4, and would be more likely to accept the AF consequences just to "get the reach" -- and they are not to concerned about the UWA capability on a 2nd body optimized for wildlife.   

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: August 22, 2012, 08:06:16 PM »
APS-H Please! :D

On the 7D, APS-H would ONLY be acceptable if it was accompanied by a versatile APS-C crop mode that worked properly with all EF-S lenses.

no argument there, if 7D2 is aimed at approximately the same market as 7D.  Unfortunately, an APS-C crop mode would not be capable of reducing the size of the mirror, a dimmentional challenge that limits the possibility of using the short-back focus lenses with the larger "H" sensor. I haven't seen any evidence that such a challenge can be overcome. It maybe possible I don't know - I just haven't seen evidence or desire on Canon's part to do it.  I'm aware that some have even modified the EF-S 10-22mm lens for use on a FF (at 10mm the mirror strikes the lens).     so maybe it can be done I dont know. 

maybe the body could operate in some sort of mirrorless mode to use the S lenses, but I dont' see that catching on either.

The biggest benefit, to me, of a crop mode is to reduce the size of the data transfer to increase fps, which is not necessary in the 7D world because of the dual processor and moderate pixel count.  There is no IQ advantage that I can think of -- throwing away pixels is easy enough to do in post.

Assuming that the mechanical challenge can be overcome, the point of a crop mode on such a camera would be to hide the imperfections outside of the image circle of the "S" lenses.  Some sort of auto-detect would be necessary, along with a dual mount capability with the white index mark that we have today.  That part is certainly doable. it just doesn't seem likely to me, that Canon would do this, as it would be too expensive for the market that depends on the S lenses.

Quote
Personally, I would prefer if APS-H was left to a higher-end body, preferably equipped with a multi-point f/8 AF sensor. ;)

yea, and without APS-C mode :D  which this segment would not care about.  The question that still bugs me is "what is the 2nd body that Canon expects the pro wildlife togs to carry"?  These are the togs most likely to appreciate a 2x converter on a 600mm f/4, and would be more likely to accept the AF consequences just to "get the reach" -- and they are not to concerned about the UWA capability on a 2nd body optimized for wildlife.   

Ah, good point about the mirror box...I guess that rules out any kind of APS-H with EF-S compatibility. I'm fine with that, so long as the 7D line remains APS-C.

Personally, I photograph birds, and you need reach for bird photography more than you need it for wildlife even. If there is one single thing that I think might make APS-C truly "professional grade", its f/8 AF in an APS-C body. If the 7D II had the specs below, I'd preorder one right now:

 - Low-noise 24mp APS-C sensor (say 60%+ Q.E., which should give a noticeable noise advantage at high ISO)
 - 41pt (21pt cross type) reticular AF sensor with 9pt center square, all 9pts of which are f/8 sensitive (41pt because I don't think you could actually pack 61pts into an APS-C frame)
 - 10fps with 1000x card write support and a deep buffer...30 frames would be nice for the ability to do successive bursts for a long time
 - CLEAN ISO 3200 and 6400

If Canon has some kind of thermoelectric cooling capabilities (as mentioned in the rumors about a 46mp bigmp body), then Canon could probably produce an APS-C sensor with industry-leading high-ISO performance and high readout speed that would trounce anything on the market now. My only concern would be power usage...TEC can be expensive from a power consumption standpoint.
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dr croubie

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: August 22, 2012, 08:29:55 PM »
Actually, I might have to disagree on the mirror-size.
AFAIK (I've used a 1Dmk 2 or 3 but didn't look too closely at the mirror), the mirror is the same size as a FF mirror. At least the focussing screens are the same size as the 1Ds. So obviously mounting EF-s would be as impossible as mounting on FF.
But if we reduce the size of the mirror to actual APS-H size, maybe there would be room to still mount EF-S lenses? Anyone got a 1D lying around and want to shave bits off their mirror to try it out?  ::)

Still, i'm definitely of the opinion that the 7D2 will be EF-s, if that means that it has to be APS-C, then so be it (but it's never going to be FF).

Also, just on the sensor-cooling, Heatpipes can be made damn small these days, just couple it to the metal shell and it should disappate enough heat (hey, if they can pull that off, it might mean the death of sensor-stabilisation such as in Pentaxes). The main problem would be stopping the heat going the other way, if it's 45 degrees outside that could heat the sensor up. A small Peltier device might help too (but now we're getting expensive...)
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dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2012, 10:06:27 PM »
The reason that APS-H BIF body discussions go haywire is because they usually contain references to the numeral 7, and that brings all sorts of philosophical musings that don't address the issue, namely "what body does canon expect the BIF togs to use?" 

whatever technology is available in 'C' is also available in 'H' with a corresponding set of well known advantages to the larger pixel pitch.  Whats  compelling to me is the hole in Canon's current line-up -- the BIF/Wildlife optimized body.  The 1Dx does everything except the reach part, and yea I totally get that BIFers are the ones who will take the AF performance hit for the ability to AF at all at f/8 -- so I do see room for a 1D4 successor, as long as we can keep the numeral 7 from coloring those discussions.  Call the body whatever you want, or make it a C or an H; doesn't matter. 

I suspect, however, that if Canon produces another H body, it will of such a price point and specialty niche that no one will care about putting an S lens on it, and there will still be room for a 7D2 in 'C' form.  Frankly I agree with those hoping that a new and disruptive "C" sensor is forthcoming and that the 2nd or BIF body will be the king of crops named the 7D2.  To do that, however, such a camera would have to produce convincingly better IQ than cropping a 5D3 or a 1Dx image to the same FOV.   who knows, maybe the BIF 2nd body will be mirrorless.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2012, 10:06:27 PM »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: August 22, 2012, 11:09:40 PM »
We have a 5D II and a 7D, and although the 7D doesn't have the resolution or low light capability of the 5D II, its in camera speed is unmatched.  The 5D II feels so sluggish after using the 7D.  I am excited about a 7D II that would have 24mp sensor and still great speed.  Even if it is far above the current 7D price point.  It would never replace the 5 series to us, but the pair make for fantastic shoots.  If the 7D II is for real, we will be looking to but both the new 7 and the 5D III this spring.

Realistically I'd think a 7D Mark II (not likely) or a 70D (more likely) would go behind the 5D Mark III, much like the 7D went behind the 5D Mark II in 2009, in level and price.  A higher MP camera will go between the 1DX and 5D Mark III.  I don't see APS-H on the horizon.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2012, 04:14:50 AM »
APS-H Please! :D

On the 7D, APS-H would ONLY be acceptable if it was accompanied by a versatile APS-C crop mode that worked properly with all EF-S lenses. Personally, I would prefer if APS-H was left to a higher-end body, preferably equipped with a multi-point f/8 AF sensor. ;)

That's been hashed out here several times in the past, & unfortunately the conclusion is that anything bigger than a 10D mirror will whack into the rear element of an EF-S lens.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2012, 06:13:09 AM »
APS-H Please! :D

On the 7D, APS-H would ONLY be acceptable if it was accompanied by a versatile APS-C crop mode that worked properly with all EF-S lenses. Personally, I would prefer if APS-H was left to a higher-end body, preferably equipped with a multi-point f/8 AF sensor. ;)

That's been hashed out here several times in the past, & unfortunately the conclusion is that anything bigger than a 10D mirror will whack into the rear element of an EF-S lens.
It was a joke, I started an ungodly thread about aps-h on a 7d to put it in the middle of the canon lineup not about mirror slap.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 06:14:53 AM by Bosman »
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dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2012, 09:00:22 AM »
That's been hashed out here several times in the past, & unfortunately the conclusion is that anything bigger than a 10D mirror will whack into the rear element of an EF-S lens.

yea, and I just don't see the S factor as significant or important in the H discusssions.  If Canon produces another H body, a lot of folks will have to seek therapy but such such a camera imho would target a segment that won't care about S lenses.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2012, 11:01:21 AM »
My real question concerning C or H sensor is how many people on here are actually using a 7D with ef-s lens'?  How many people spend that much on a camera, that much more for a 7D II upgrade and then puts $300 glass on it.  Make it a pro crop camera!  C or H, but actually make it a pro price point for the technology to separate it from all of the T series and xxD series cameras!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2012, 11:15:43 AM »
My real question concerning C or H sensor is how many people on here are actually using a 7D with ef-s lens'?  How many people spend that much on a camera, that much more for a 7D II upgrade and then puts $300 glass on it.
I use mine a lot with the 17-55 and the 10-22 mm lenses, both of which admittedly did cost more than $300.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2012, 11:15:43 AM »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2012, 11:35:19 AM »
My real question concerning C or H sensor is how many people on here are actually using a 7D with ef-s lens'?  How many people spend that much on a camera, that much more for a 7D II upgrade and then puts $300 glass on it.
I use mine a lot with the 17-55 and the 10-22 mm lenses, both of which admittedly did cost more than $300.


Ohhh EF-S...  The 17-55 and the 10-22 are the only decent ef-s lenses.  Furthermore, I see no need in the 17-55 if you already have the 10-22.  Reality, there isn't much that the 17-55 offers that can't be done with the 10-22 combined with a 24-70 (or mix it up, 10-22 and 50 mm 1.4), or even the 24-105.  The 17-55 just angers me, cause it really should be a EF mount, and at the cost it should also have L lens build quality (AKA weather sealed!!!)...

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2012, 11:39:23 AM »
My real question concerning C or H sensor is how many people on here are actually using a 7D with ef-s lens'?  How many people spend that much on a camera, that much more for a 7D II upgrade and then puts $300 glass on it.
I use mine a lot with the 17-55 and the 10-22 mm lenses, both of which admittedly did cost more than $300.
+1 10-22, 15-85 & 60 macro are the lenses I use most on my 7D - not cheap and in my view, on par optically with equivalant L glass. I just wish I could get these in L build quality - weathersealing would be nice.  On a recent trip to Panama, the humidity [not rain] shut my 7D down for 3 days. I still wonder if that would have happened with sealed glass.  Since Canon doesn't seem inclined to make such, I'm really looking at the OM-D, especially with the new 60mm macro if it turns out to be any good.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:46:53 AM by pharp »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Specs? [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2012, 11:39:23 AM »