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Author Topic: Canon EOS-1D C Available?  (Read 11704 times)

jpk

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2012, 09:52:54 PM »
In one sense I agree with you. I think Canon was trying to ride the wave of cinematographers that were using the 5D2 and the 7D by getting an improved version of the DSLR cameras they were using to market. A lot of changes can happen in two to three years as a product goes from the concept stage to retail shelves. Maybe the whole DSLR cinematography thing will fizzle out, maybe it will take off better than before if they now have a dedicated purpose built body to use.

As for the BMCC, I think they need to do a revamp of the ergos on it before it is a viable production camera. The touch screen to me is a problem. Seems like a novel thing but in real world use it seems to me to have issues. In bright sunlight having to access camera functions via the screen if you need to have some sort of viewfinder ocular just to see the screen for focus, etc. could be problematic.

Who knows, stranger things have happened. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. From my perspective, why did Canon even release the C300. Why not go straight to a 4k body since that is where the movement is going. I'd be pissed if I spent all that money on a C300 then have Canon release a 4k body for a few grand more.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 09:56:14 PM by jpk »

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2012, 09:52:54 PM »

peederj

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2012, 01:08:58 AM »
I heard the C500 will be more than double the price of the C300 ($35K?), for essentially the same camera, just uncrippled 4K. There are rumors the C300 has 4K or at least much higher res "somewhere in there" you just can't get at it. It would be a major coup if a hacker were to break into it.

The BMCC has a sunshade that clips over the touchscreen. The touchscreen is new, but it's the wave of the future clearly, even our beloved Canon is doing it on the T4i and M. The BMCC did everything "Apple" right down to the unreplaceable internal battery and milled aluminum chassis. Apple doesn't seem to have done so poorly with their embrace of touchscreens.

The BMCC isn't in "the club." The other camera manu's have become too comfortable in their trot. When you compare the bundled software...compare Davinci Resolve with...uhm..."Digital Photo Professional" (Resolve used to cost $250,000)...and everything else, Canon is being left in the dust. The 5D2 gave Canon a new franchise in large-sensor video. They fumbled.

AG

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2012, 01:14:13 AM »
The 5D2 gave Canon a new franchise in large-sensor video. They fumbled.

You pretty much nailed it with that part of the comment
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

Axilrod

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2012, 12:56:56 PM »
Someone said it's available in Australia for $9,999 AUD, which is a little over $10k US.  It may do a little bit better at that price.  That would make sense as to why it's not available for preorder at B&H yet, they're not sure on the price.
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unadog

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2012, 03:35:45 PM »
Hopefully their retort will be a 5D-C that records 1080 raw for $4000.  But that'd piss off so many purchasers of the original 5D3, that I doubt it will happen.

No, it is coming I am pretty sure.

It won't have RAW, but it will have Canon Log Gamma, like the C300/C500/1DC. basically a "little brother" to the 1DC.

I am 99% convinced that Canon has not released a video-centric camera yet this year. The 5D3 is definitely a stills camera with improved video.  The T4i is our same entry level.

I am just worried that Canon will put out the High MP camera instead of the 3D-C, 5D-C, 7D-C because of Nikon's D800.


Just to correct a few things:

1) The 1DC can shoot 1080 HD full frame, or 4K at Super 35 crop - a very standard cine size.

2) The 1DC will have uncompressed HDMI out.  Internal codec to cards for proxy editing, external capture for final edit.  So will the C500.

3) Some things require hardware bandwith/processor power/memory, and cost a certain amount to start. Some things like HDMI, codecs, etc. are firmware related.  Those will show up  in the 7D-C.

4) The BMCC is a niche camera. It is great for long form video, cinema, etc. Not so good for Run & Gun, ERG, broadcast, sports, that requires a fast turnaround.

5) The BMCC is a video only camera. I bought my 5D3 for stills. High ISO quality in low light, excellent autofocus.  The fact that it shoots the best/tied for best video on a DSLR (along with the D800) is great!

So the question is not: BMCC or 5D#. It is $3,000 for 5DC. Then, can I afford/justify another dedicated, niche video camera? And also need a cancorder like the X1-AH, FS100, etc. too?

6) Canon announced last November that the C300, C500, 1DC would be 4K front end enabled, with better than 8 bit back end coming later.  That is what they have done.
 
7) there are a lot of people using the C300 to make high end documentaries, movies, weddings, etc. right now. They are very happy with the camera.

If you have never spent more than $5,000 for a camera, you might not understand teh economics of the $15K to 25K tools.  People buying those are probably in a position where they pay for themselves in 3-6 months.  Or, they rent them for a job, and the c ost is a pure "pass through" expense to the client, or amortized against thje 3 week, $50K income from the job, etc.


When I bought my Canon 1DsII for $8,000 in 2004, I used to to completely replace medium format (6x7) film, taht cost me 1 dollar per frame.  I shot 40,000 images per year on that for 2 years, then sold the camera for $5,000.

Fro 1998-2004, I spent a minimum of $5,000 a year on film and developing only (no prints, etc.)  that I was nopt reimbursed for by clients (for personal projects, etc.) I also bought 2, $3,000+ medium format scanners during thjose 6 years.  Computer costs were equal, because I scanned, edited, and printed film from 1998 on. Digital files were 1/10 the size of film scans, requiring a **less** powerful computer.

So my net cost for the 1DsII was $1,500 per year, versus $5,000+$1,000 = $6,000 a year for film & scanner.  Basically, it paid for iteslf in 3 months each year - the rest of the year it was "free" to use, saving me $4,500 a year. Plus I rented it out at $300 per day. 

We are basically at the same place in video now, as we were in 2004 with the 1DsII. Today you can buy the Canon T4i for $800, with basically the same still image quality and decent auto focus, as the $8,000 camera from 8 years ago.

The same thing will happen with video, this year and next. In teh mean time, things will change every 3-4 months as new cameras are announced, though they may take 6+ months to get to market. 

To compare systems, you have to look at the whole "ecosystem" & workflow.  A niche camera does not replace an all-around camera.  A landscape camera does not replace a sports camera.  Log codec will give you 75% of what you get in RAW at much lower bit rates. How good is the auto focus on the BMCC? Etc.

Canon either needs to have high profit margins (C300, C500), or sell 2,000,000+ copies (T4i, 5D3, 7D2, etc.) to justify devoting scarce internal resources to a project. 

That is why the niche playes can beat Canon, et al to the market by 6-12 months. They can make an "adequate" profit at a volume of 1,000 to 10,000 units.  For Canon, a $5 million profit would only offset a rounding error from their currency arbitrage. 

Cheers!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 03:42:25 PM by unadog »

Axilrod

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 09:30:03 PM »
I heard the C500 will be more than double the price of the C300 ($35K?), for essentially the same camera, just uncrippled 4K. There are rumors the C300 has 4K or at least much higher res "somewhere in there" you just can't get at it. It would be a major coup if a hacker were to break into it.

From what I gather the C300's 1080p output is still sampled from 3840×2160, so it technically has 4K resolution it's final output is just 1080p. 
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ksieb

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2012, 10:40:38 PM »

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2012, 10:40:38 PM »

stevenrrmanir

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2012, 10:56:08 PM »
LOL - more proof that whoever is in charge of running Canon is SLEEPING on their job, are OUT OF TOUCH with reality,and are plain IGNORANT of the market out there...

...they will run out of money like Sony is, and run their company out of business...

Sony has less than 5 years to get its finances right, or they will file for bankruptcy...

Canon has been slowly moving toward the same direction the last 2 years...

it amazes me how retarded Canon is most of the time...

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Re: Canon EOS-1D C Available?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2012, 10:56:08 PM »