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Author Topic: 7d noise question is it normal?  (Read 14391 times)

applecider

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7d noise question is it normal?
« on: August 25, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »
Here are some examples:

I've been shooting a variety of photos with 7d 5dii and iii and the 7d while a good tracking and focusing camera, has not lived up to my expectations of improving reach because the files don't stand up to any cropping because of high noise and what I think is just poor iso performance.  Even uncropped files look fuzzy.  I've included files from DPP of clouds (since they are at infinity focus to take poor focusing out of equation), but virtually all the photos show the same graininess and I think that is keeping them from attaining sharpness, really at any iso.  The metadata should be right nest to the photos to show the iso and other information.
So is this normal or outside of normal for a 7d, and what should I do bought the camera about 6 months ago.
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7d noise question is it normal?
« on: August 25, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 02:44:35 PM »
ISO's a bit high for the 7D.  Although 640 is not that high, there is going to be some noise there with the 7D's sensor.  I don't recall 640 being so much that I couldn't apply NR, THEN increase sharpness.  If you increase sharpness first, you'll sharpen the noise.  Try to shoot ISO 100-400 from now on, if you can.  If not, you'll have to deal with this in post. 

This is why the 1D Mark IV, although a 1.3x crop factor, actually has more reach than the 7D at higher ISO's.
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nightbreath

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 02:53:12 PM »
Below is 100% crop of what I have on my 7D if the area is underexposed.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:28:30 PM by nightbreath »
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bdunbar79

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 02:57:47 PM »
Yes nightbreath, since he shot in spot metering, I'm guessing the areas he's showing is NOT his subject and therefore with that type of metering, is NOT exposed correctly.  Not to say that that can't be intentional, but then you pay with noise and/or banding in the surrounding areas.
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applecider

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 03:08:25 PM »
As I said I was shouting clouds in this image, so I don't think that it is a focus or metering issue, these photo are typical not exceptional.  If the 7d is limited to iso 400, then it really is a poor wildlife platform.

Here is another sample at %200 that shows the noise that I'm getting that seems to be preventing sharpness.  I'll try to find a low iso example with different metering
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bdunbar79

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 03:46:12 PM »
I was just trying to figure out why you had ISO 640, if your shutter was 1/1600 and aperture f/13?  I always try to find the most reasonable combinations that gives me the lowest ISO possible, to avoid noise, even if it's just digital noise.  The 7D's sensor is noisy, unfortunately and the 18mp crammed into that sensor causes problems.  Why don't you shoot the clouds at f/8, and shutter 1/800, for instance, and keep ISO at 125?  (approximate settings).
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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 04:01:13 PM »
I was just trying to figure out why you had ISO 640, if your shutter was 1/1600 and aperture f/13?  I always try to find the most reasonable combinations that gives me the lowest ISO possible, to avoid noise, even if it's just digital noise.  The 7D's sensor is noisy, unfortunately and the 18mp crammed into that sensor causes problems.  Why don't you shoot the clouds at f/8, and shutter 1/800, for instance, and keep ISO at 125?  (approximate settings).

Bird in flight demands a shutter speed as fast as possible...The basic setting for a dark BIF I use on my 7D with 300 2.8 is is: s1250 AV 2.8 ISO 160. This would work great for a bird like this.
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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 04:01:13 PM »

Krob78

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
Settings seem way off for photos shot up to the sky...  I seldom shoot clouds or sky at over ISO 100, except sunsets at times... Also, I think you should shut off some of your settings in camera, like NR in long exposures and the others that are similar... you have NR set to strong in one of them, I find standard more than adequate.  Seems like your settings need some tweaking to me...  :)

Your bird shot looks oof as well... you may want to try a different focus preset and bump your shutter speed up to at least 1/1600-1/2000th, then ISO 640 may be appropriate, but you won't have the noise issue... at the distance you were, you probably could have been shooting the bird at f/2.8 or 3.2... that would help too...  I only seem to experience bad noise issues when I'm shooting low light and then it's mostly in the shadows, especially if I'm doing some portrait work.  Daytime shooting outside is seldom a noise issue...

Good luck!


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bdunbar79

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 04:18:53 PM »
I was just trying to figure out why you had ISO 640, if your shutter was 1/1600 and aperture f/13?  I always try to find the most reasonable combinations that gives me the lowest ISO possible, to avoid noise, even if it's just digital noise.  The 7D's sensor is noisy, unfortunately and the 18mp crammed into that sensor causes problems.  Why don't you shoot the clouds at f/8, and shutter 1/800, for instance, and keep ISO at 125?  (approximate settings).

Bird in flight demands a shutter speed as fast as possible...The basic setting for a dark BIF I use on my 7D with 300 2.8 is is: s1250 AV 2.8 ISO 160. This would work great for a bird like this.

At any rate, we agree the ISO could be a lot lower, right?
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nicku

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 04:23:29 PM »
Here are some examples:

I've been shooting a variety of photos with 7d 5dii and iii and the 7d while a good tracking and focusing camera, has not lived up to my expectations of improving reach because the files don't stand up to any cropping because of high noise and what I think is just poor iso performance.  Even uncropped files look fuzzy.  I've included files from DPP of clouds (since they are at infinity focus to take poor focusing out of equation), but virtually all the photos show the same graininess and I think that is keeping them from attaining sharpness, really at any iso.  The metadata should be right nest to the photos to show the iso and other information.
So is this normal or outside of normal for a 7d, and what should I do bought the camera about 6 months ago.


I own a 7D. This amount of noise is NOT NORMAL at that ISO. I'm shore is something wrong with the camera.

dtaylor

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 05:28:51 PM »
A) Never look at files at 200%. You are looking at the quality of the viewer screen interpolation algorithm, which is usually optimized for speed and not quality, and not the actual file.

B) I see spot metering is set in every case. This noise is excessive for the pictured ISOs. I'm willing to bet the metering threw off the exposures and we're looking at underexposed files which have been adjusted in post. Am I right?

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 05:56:33 PM »
That amount of noise is more than I would expect from my 7D. Quite why its there I don't know. I would expect it may be something to do with settings somewhere. I think there are about 70 on the 7D so pleenty of chance for something amiss.

As the sensor on the 7D is packed with lots of sensors it has to have quite a bit of filtering to stop moira patterns. I would expect to sharpen any image that you wanted to use.

You wont be able to crop any reduced size sensor like you can crop a larger sensor for the same IQ.

Here is a shot taken at ISO 3200 and processed. So there is some noise reduction but not sharpened. This could be processed to print out at A4, there will be some noise that will be too much for some people. Its a matter of choice.
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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 06:15:47 PM »
Whoa. That quite a bit of noise for a 7D. I've shot up to my limit of 6400, and feeling ok at 3200 ISO.

Turn off all processing in camera, ALO, NR, or anything else. It adds noise.

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 06:15:47 PM »

friedmud

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 06:20:35 PM »
Turn off Auto Lighting Optimizer.  That's one of the things that was putting a lot of noise into my 7D images early on.

But I do agree that you're seeing an excessive amount of noise...

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 07:04:25 PM »
I noticed that you are shooting at f13.0.  The DLA for the 7d is f6.9.  While this may not be the answer to all the noise, it is contributing to the problem.  I have never seen so much noise with my 7d at 640 and I use ISO 640 for early morning bird shots to get the shutter speed up there.

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Re: 7d noise question is it normal?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 07:04:25 PM »