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Author Topic: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?  (Read 10298 times)

dave

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 09:34:10 AM »
We really really need to grow out of this DSLR fetich. Yes, it was amazing to see what was suddenly possible. But the fact remains that the DSLRs are CRAP for proper video work. I can pick out a music video or a commercial 8 times out of 10 if they have been shot with a DSLR... because it looks like what it is. Bad cheap production value.

No short DoF can compensate for what is being churned out........

That is the reason I took the jump and moved on. The FS100 was the first stop... now the F3 is starting to look nice for those corporate jobs and in time the Alexa and F65 will look even nicer on a rental basis.

DSLRs have become the general toy of hopetimists and it's getting freaking boring to look at. A oh god I'm already fearing all the BS slowmo films that will be pouring out of every corner in the world over the next year or so.

Spend money on the proper tool for the job you're doing. If I haven't blown my load on the FS100, I'd upgrade my photo side of the business to a proper Phase One camera as well. There is very noticeable difference between shooting with a camera like that or a DSLR.

To be honest... the most optimal thing would be to throw all my money in optics and lights. Those are eternal and won't degrade as fast Canons "new one every year with 5% tech increase" camera policy.

I know this is hard to take for blinded Canon fan boys, but after having been one myself for so many years, I've finally started to seeing the light, and it's not shining on Canon and their consumer mentality.

Nice, I haven't been to the headmaster's office for years. That all should help the OP, given that:

- according to the OP his 'job' or 'passion' is also stills
- the OP has not specified that he is doing commercials or music videos
- what's the budget of all that? As much as I'd love an F3 or an Alexa, my yearly PhD scholarship wouldn't even cover it. My video must be junk then. I don't know why I bother.

You are entitled to your opinion, but who are you actually trying to help with it?

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 09:34:10 AM »

dshipley

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 10:08:32 AM »
OP, to get the best possible answer you really need to let us know what your budget is and what exactly you need to buy in that budget (cameras, audio recorders, mics, tripods, and stabilizers have all been mentioned). Also, it would be helpful to know any equipment you currently do own (such as lenses, etc) as that could help us make even better suggestions.
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cinema-dslr

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 11:36:56 AM »

You better get the vest+support arm with the glidecam +1500,-euro if you want to take shots longer than 30sec.

With your budget a decent camcorder is out of the question.
I would wait if the 7dmarkII is anounched or the "budget fullframe" they will likely offer the best and newest features for a around 2000,- priceticket.
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2012, 11:43:46 AM »
If you install Magic Lantern it will give you focus peaking and zebras that while not as good as a dedicated video camera, work surprisingly well in most situations.  Magic Lantern also gives you the option to record the internal mic to one channel, and an external mic to the other.

+1 ... Magic lantern has killer features esp. for video, don't forget about *hdr* video! The 5d3 improves on the aliasing problem, but other than that 5d2+ml should be a pro-level video solution if you are ok with mf and the handling of a camera w/o swivel screen that was basically designed for still shots.

cliffwang

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 01:18:09 PM »

+1 ... Magic lantern has killer features esp. for video, don't forget about *hdr* video! The 5d3 improves on the aliasing problem, but other than that 5d2+ml should be a pro-level video solution if you are ok with mf and the handling of a camera w/o swivel screen that was basically designed for still shots.
Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?
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paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2012, 05:17:08 PM »
@cliffwang
Quote
Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?

No.

If you already have a half decent NLE you probably have the tools you need to merge different exposure layers (although I'm not sure that the HDR ML gives you is quite the same process as merging stills, I suspect it's already done in camera probably by making the most of the sensors dynamic range, but I don't use ML so what do I know...)

If you had say 3 identical video takes from a tripod with different exposures, then you could place each take in it's own video layer (v1, v2, v3)   and either blend using different opacity levels, or composite using different modes (difference, exclusion, multiply, screen etc)

In stills mode the barrier to successful HDR is cloud, people or foilage movement, in video this would be 10 times worse, the only way I could imagine combating it to give you three seperate video expsosures would be to have the same footage pulled down at 3 different exposures, for depth of field parity and motion parity this would probably need to be 3 sensors set up around a prism, one chip at ISO 100, one at ISO 200, one at ISO 400 for example.

As such I really don't think the ML HDR mode will work like stills, it will be one file already processed, probably using selective clipping and crunching beyond the usual processed range.

Still HDR but not in the way stills guys are used to.


Marsu42

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 04:08:10 AM »
Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?

It's on the ml site somewhere - you can use a avisynth, but the quality might be a little less than commercial plugins.

(although I'm not sure that the HDR ML gives you is quite the same process as merging stills, I suspect it's already done in camera probably by making the most of the sensors dynamic range, but I don't use ML so what do I know...)

Indeed :-) ... because video hdr in ml is *just* done as for stills: The framerate is doubled and every other picture is taken with a different exposure. In post both frames are merged using motion compensation, effectively nearly doubling the dynamic range. There are tutorial videos on vimeo, or watch this:

Magic Lantern HDR Video on Vimeo

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 04:08:10 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2012, 04:29:33 AM »
How is the exposure changed?  ISO ramping? So do you then shoot at 1/100th or is 1/50th still okay?

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2012, 04:58:51 AM »
Also, does 50fps mean 720p, or does it mean reduced bitrate? Or both?

Marsu42

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2012, 06:32:13 AM »
Also, does 50fps mean 720p, or does it mean reduced bitrate? Or both?

It's done by iso ramping, in the current release you manually configure the iso value for both frames. And yes, you got the catch, double framerate means no 1080p due to the fps requirement - you can manually configure the fps with ml, but the digic4 cameras are not fast enough for 1080p/60 or /50. And for 720p a 5d3 is better because of less aliasing, ml is currently ported for that target.

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 06:56:53 AM »
Interesting, not put ML on my T3i yet, I run a mac and like to overwrite format my cards each use.

Seems quite a convoluted process.

So far 7D and T3i are working well enough for me without it.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2012, 02:37:18 PM »
So far 7D and T3i are working well enough for me without it.

The better is the enemy of the good :-) ... fine by me if people don't use ml, I just want to make sure everybody knows about the features and can make an educated decision so the devs get the support they deserve. And there are a lot of features, even I didn't try them all ... recently I discovered that you can shoot better still pictures with ml because the ml iso settings have less noise than these of the Canon firmware - incredible.

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 04:49:30 PM »
I think thats why i'm holding back, i know that ISO for ISO properly lined up footage from my T3i and 7d will cut together, if ML is in the mix I may not be happy with 2 camera cuts

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Re: Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 04:49:30 PM »