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Author Topic: More Analysis of the C100  (Read 13999 times)

Canon Rumors

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More Analysis of the C100
« on: August 29, 2012, 08:57:20 AM »

What’s the world saying?

There is lots of opinion out there already about the new Canon EOS C100 entry level professional video camera. It looks like the camera will be in the $8000 range, though pricing hasn’t been officially announced yet.


The biggest difference I see on the surface, is the camera cannot take PL mount lenses. It looks like they’re only releasing an EF mount camera. Most initial opinions on the camera are quite positive, visit the sites below for some opinions. I’ll post more during the day as they start rolling in.


Planet5D – C100 Impressions

“I think most of us will take that with a grain of salt. The “beginning filmmakers” part – many of us cannot afford an $8000 camera. Which is why the HDSLR line has made such an impact on filmmakers in the first place – it’s low-cost! While I agree this is the lowest price of the EOS line, many will quibble with the idea that this is priced for the beginning filmmaker.” Visit Planet5D


EOSHD – C100 Impressions

“Canon today launched the much speculated Canon C100, the budget version of the C300. Initially set for a price under the Sony FS700 (around $8000), the camera is double the price of a used FS100 but features built-in ND filters and the same sensor as the C300. The design and handling looks fantastic, it is even smaller than the C300 (by some 15%) but the major compromise is the codec which is now AVCHD at 24Mbit 4-2-0.” Visit EOSHD


Vincent Laforet – C100 Impressions

“Many may be taken aback with the idea of spending $7,999 on this camera at first. But if you stop to think about what you won’t NEED to buy – it can actually start to look like the C100 might just be a wiser investment long term. This camera comes ready to shoot. The ergonomics are great so you don’t HAVE to have a cage. You don’t need to buy an external audio recorder and synching software – this has XLR inputs (and stereo headphone jack as well as levels) with the handle.”  Visit VincentLaforet


No Film School – C100 Impressions

“While it would have upset quite a few people, this camera should really have been the C300. Canon has a more costly camera at every price point than Sony, and for the same money you can get a camera that does 240fps at 1080 — instead of 60i at 1080. I think Canon is gambling on users buying or using this camera strictly for the white name etched into the front. There won’t be any PL mount lenses on this camera, as Canon is only introducing an EF mount version.” Visit NoFilmSchool


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« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:26:59 AM by Canon Rumors »
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More Analysis of the C100
« on: August 29, 2012, 08:57:20 AM »

preppyak

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 09:05:05 AM »
So, its basically more than double the price of the Black Magic, but without even some of the same features. Yeah; I see this camera getting buried by the competition.

pakosouthpark

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 09:06:22 AM »
So, its basically more than double the price of the Black Magic, but without even some of the same features. Yeah; I see this camera getting buried by the competition.

+1 too much money..

Bob Howland

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 09:18:50 AM »
"...the major compromise is the codec which is now AVCHD at 24Mbit 4-2-0."

And the codec that they didn't use, presumably because it was too expensive, is used in the Canon XF100, which costs $3000 but does 4-2-2.

The Canon marketing people are trying to be a little too clever for their own good. Basically, the C100, C300 and C500 are all about double the price they should be. Doesn't Canon realize that they have competition?

NormanBates

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 11:16:59 AM »
The 422 codec is not any more expensive to implement: the encoder is the same "digic DV III" from the C300... and from the HF-R200 that sells for under $400 on amazon.

It'a a marketing decision to differenciate products.

And because of these decisions, this camera doesn't look good in its market. I'd rather get the FS700... and that's until the new breed of RAW cameras from small vendors hit the market, including S35 ones like the $8000 kineRAW, which should start shipping real soon

Axilrod

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2012, 12:11:52 PM »
They're taking preorders in Europe for 4999 Euro, which is a little over $6k US.  But Vincent Laforet made some good points, you don't have to buy an external EVF ($950 for Zacuto), monitor ($300-$1500 depending on what you get, mine was $1200 with batteries), rods/mattebox ($600-$1200, plus at least a tripod plate to attach it to) for ND filters($150-$600 depending on which way you go), or an external audio recorder ($100-$300).  Those accessories add up, once you factor that in it really isn't a bad deal.  I've spent a fortune on accessories to make my 5DII/5DIII function like a video camera (way, way more than the cameras cost themselves).

And sure it may be 24mbps 4:2:0 to cards, but with a clean HDMI out you can record to an external recorder and who knows how good the footage will look using that method.  And plus, 1.6x crop > 2.4 of the BMD cinema camera.  I still think the BMD is a great deal for what it is, but I don't think it will hurt the sales of this much. 

I'm afraid I'd still be torn between this and the FS700, the 240fps is a very appealing feature and so is being able to upgrade to 4k in the future, then again who knows how much the Sony external recorder will set you back.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 12:53:00 PM by Axilrod »
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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 12:15:12 PM »
I guess Canon heard the shots, but it looks too late.

The kineraw s35 takes this camera to the woodshed.

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 12:15:12 PM »

peederj

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 12:32:00 PM »
It's true this is an all-in-one, you just might want an external recorder for green screen work or anything where IQ is important because the internal codec is 4:2:0 and the HDMI out is 4:2:2. Given the external recorders are under $1000, and save you the hassle of a ProRes transcode, I see no reason to buy a C300 over this, unless you need the better timecode/SDI etc. I think most of the people running timecode are shooting on Alexa etc. not C300. The C500 will play to that crowd. But I think the C300 just reached EOL, unless they unlock the 4K inside it somehow.

The accessories you might have for 5d2/3 shooting are still going to be beneficial though. ND solids aren't the only useful filters, external audio recorders are better in numerous ways, etc. With an external video recorder you will want rigging to keep it at hand, with a Ninja 2 you can use it as a monitor for the focus puller or for scopes. That this offers hand-held run and gun so well is a major plus over the FS700, and it has much better rolling shutter performance than the BMC.

A lot of people would have preferred the EOS M mount so they could adapt anything but Canon is in business to make money and wants people to buy its lenses. You can still adapt manual Nikon lenses. There are 80M EF lenses in the world and Samyang has cheap cinema options now.

This is a nice camera and if it is $6,500 it's reasonable. $16,000 for a C300 is no longer reasonable at all, if it ever could be argued to be. That price was for rental houses I think. This is priced to own.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 12:36:49 PM »
Canon support now says that the HDMI output is 4:2:0 8 bit.

weaksauce.

peederj

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2012, 12:41:15 PM »
Canon support now says that the HDMI output is 4:2:0 8 bit.

weaksauce.

Link please.

(I see that is just from word-of-mouth on the EOSHD forum)

This published spec claims 4:2:2 color space, the press release only mentions 4:2:0 for the internal AVCHD recording.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_c100#Specifications
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 12:45:30 PM by peederj »

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 12:59:42 PM »
It makes sense though. Giving it external 4:2:2 would all but bury the c300.

peederj

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 01:09:44 PM »
It makes sense though. Giving it external 4:2:2 would all but bury the c300.

Cannibalism is an essential nutrient for any company. Eat your own or be eaten by others.

I would say this camera is DOA if it doesn't have the external 4:2:2. That would be crippleware.

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 01:34:22 PM »
Planet 5D and Vincent LaForet link both link back to Vincent's blog...
EOS 5D MKII & 50D, Zeiss 50mm f1.4
www.ricardogomezphotography.com

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 01:34:22 PM »

Ed_jk

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 01:48:02 PM »
Who in its right mind will get a C100 when there is a FS700 for the same price?
Why is it that almost nobody talks about the 2.4x crop on the black magic camera?? smells like voodoo.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 02:04:54 PM »
Because the fs700 is a completely different readout (It doesn't address rolling shutter like the c100 sensor does) and looks like junk in all the samples out there. It's got one trick: high fps. 

The BMC looks like more serious competition, but it's a small sensor, so people might differentiate on that.

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Re: More Analysis of the C100
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 02:04:54 PM »