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Author Topic: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...  (Read 7494 times)

PeterJ

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2012, 03:14:27 AM »
I use a 15-minute charger but also carry a pack of 4 lithium AA cells as an emergency. At about $15 for 4 with a shelf life of about 10 years and a 3000mA/Hr rating they're quite economical insurance if you're not normally using them.

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2012, 03:14:27 AM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2012, 03:18:28 AM »
I use a 15-minute charger but also carry a pack of 4 lithium AA cells as an emergency. At about $15 for 4 with a shelf life of about 10 years and a 3000mA/Hr rating they're quite economical insurance if you're not normally using them.
Good point ... I dd not know they were 3000mAh
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Marsu42

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2012, 04:18:25 AM »
I ordered to test some Powerex that are 2700mAh. I hope they are as good as they say they are. Ordered some Eneloop too.

"Hope" is the correct word - the mAh rating is mostly marketing, good 2000 mAh batteries likely have more power than cheap 2500 mAh ones - or at least the "super batteries" will be below "standard" ones after a few charge cycles. That's because few people will measure how much power there is in their shiny new batteries and then return it to the store. So that's +1 for Eneloop, too, I also use them in my 600rt.

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2012, 05:52:04 AM »
I ordered to test some Powerex that are 2700mAh. I hope they are as good as they say they are. Ordered some Eneloop too.

"Hope" is the correct word - the mAh rating is mostly marketing, good 2000 mAh batteries likely have more power than cheap 2500 mAh ones - or at least the "super batteries" will be below "standard" ones after a few charge cycles. That's because few people will measure how much power there is in their shiny new batteries and then return it to the store. So that's +1 for Eneloop, too, I also use them in my 600rt.
That's true about any product, i.e. cheap stuff (even though rated at higher power) is no match to a lower rated good quality product. But not all high mAh batteries are marketing fluff, especially in the case of Powerex mAh 2700 ... someone like Joe McNally uses dozens of speedlites with Powerex 2700 mAh batteries ... I just saw a class on Kelby Traing called "Dancers in Flight with Beautiful Light" by Joe McNally where they show Joe's gear including the insane amount of his speedlites and the even more insane amount of Powerex batteries ... So I'm pretty confident that would be good. Having said that I totally agree with you about eneloop batteries, they are incredibly reliable and they never failed me once.
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SDsc0rch

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2012, 05:14:25 PM »
this brings up a question i've had for a while now

i use the eneloops for my flash (the white/blue ones - not the black XX 2500mah)

and a powerex mh-c9000 to recharge them - love it!

of its many features, it permits you to set the recharge rate

the documentation warns against giving the batteries too much juice during recharging (ie, re-charging too fast)

i always set it to 700 (out of 1000)

i'm curious... if you use a re-charger that allows you to set the recharge rate, what rate do you use??

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 01:03:34 AM »

the documentation warns against giving the batteries too much juice during recharging (ie, re-charging too fast)

i always set it to 700 (out of 1000)

i'm curious... if you use a re-charger that allows you to set the recharge rate, what rate do you use??
What does the document warning say, I mean the consequences of recharging fast?
I ask bcoz for the past 3+ years I've been using energizer fast recharger (30 mins) to recharge my eneloop batteries, and I threw way the manual a long time ago.
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Jimbo

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 03:05:38 AM »
The maximum safe charge current for Sanyo Eneloop batteries without reducing service life is 1/2C, i.e. half the rated capacity in mA.
The maximum overall charge current according to the datasheets is 1C.
(1C does not mean 1 Coulomb, but 1 Capacity unit. This sometimes leads to confusion and frankly, I do not know why this unit was chosen.)

To sum it up:

For the white Eneloops (200mAh) recommended current ist btw 500 and 1000mA, max at 2000mA
for the black (XX) Eneloops (2500mAh) it is btw 500 and 1250mA, max at 2500mA.

Best results will be obtained with a modern electronically controlled fast charger that takes between 2 and 4 hours for a full charge cycle.
Very fast chargers (btw 1 and 2 hours) slightly reduce service life. If you accept having to buy new cells at a slightly higher rate, that should not be a problem, though.
For Eneloops especially, I would stay away from chargers that take less than an hour for a full charge (i.e. current more than 1C). They waste your cells and it would be wiser to just get a set of backup cells stored away readily charged.
Those chargers are from the days before low self discharging cells like Eneloop when you had to hastily top up your constantly discharging cells before you left the house. That is a thing from the past.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 03:52:14 AM by Jimbo »

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 03:05:38 AM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 05:12:49 AM »
The maximum safe charge current for Sanyo Eneloop batteries without reducing service life is 1/2C, i.e. half the rated capacity in mA.
The maximum overall charge current according to the datasheets is 1C.
(1C does not mean 1 Coulomb, but 1 Capacity unit. This sometimes leads to confusion and frankly, I do not know why this unit was chosen.)

To sum it up:

For the white Eneloops (200mAh) recommended current ist btw 500 and 1000mA, max at 2000mA
for the black (XX) Eneloops (2500mAh) it is btw 500 and 1250mA, max at 2500mA.

Best results will be obtained with a modern electronically controlled fast charger that takes between 2 and 4 hours for a full charge cycle.
Very fast chargers (btw 1 and 2 hours) slightly reduce service life. If you accept having to buy new cells at a slightly higher rate, that should not be a problem, though.
For Eneloops especially, I would stay away from chargers that take less than an hour for a full charge (i.e. current more than 1C). They waste your cells and it would be wiser to just get a set of backup cells stored away readily charged.
Those chargers are from the days before low self discharging cells like Eneloop when you had to hastily top up your constantly discharging cells before you left the house. That is a thing from the past.
Darn it, I'll have to get a new charger now ... oh well, since I've already messed with my eneloops charging them with a 30 minute charger for the last 3 years, I guess I'll just have to get new batteries and a new charger ... I'll wait for my current batteries to die and get new charger & batteries.
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romanr74

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 07:07:04 AM »
What are the relevant parameters with Batteries? What's most important for good performance and fast recovery? I did some shooting on the weekend with my 600 RT, in programmed 5 second interwals: it first fired every second one, sometimes only every third. Is this what can be expected or do batteries make a relevant difference here?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 07:13:29 AM by romanr74 »
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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 08:51:53 AM »
The maximum safe charge current for Sanyo Eneloop batteries without reducing service life is 1/2C, i.e. half the rated capacity in mA.
The maximum overall charge current according to the datasheets is 1C.
(1C does not mean 1 Coulomb, but 1 Capacity unit. This sometimes leads to confusion and frankly, I do not know why this unit was chosen.)

To sum it up:

For the white Eneloops (200mAh) recommended current ist btw 500 and 1000mA, max at 2000mA
for the black (XX) Eneloops (2500mAh) it is btw 500 and 1250mA, max at 2500mA.

Best results will be obtained with a modern electronically controlled fast charger that takes between 2 and 4 hours for a full charge cycle.
Very fast chargers (btw 1 and 2 hours) slightly reduce service life. If you accept having to buy new cells at a slightly higher rate, that should not be a problem, though.
For Eneloops especially, I would stay away from chargers that take less than an hour for a full charge (i.e. current more than 1C). They waste your cells and it would be wiser to just get a set of backup cells stored away readily charged.
Those chargers are from the days before low self discharging cells like Eneloop when you had to hastily top up your constantly discharging cells before you left the house. That is a thing from the past.

I agree totally with you that fast chargers will reduce recycle-life of AA cells, but the optimum recharging current is C/5 and not C/2 as you have stated above. All of my AA Sanyo Eneloops are rated at 1.2V 2000mAh, but take just 4 hours to fully recharge at 500mA. My charger goes higher, but I'd rather enjoy the full 1,500 cycles from these cells than say 700 to 800. It is better to just buy more of them than you actually need, thus keep spares (I have 36 AA Eneloops kept in neat 4-cell plastic containers) that fit any pocket in your DSLR bag.

What determines the optimum charging rate is resistance (Ohms) and unlike the Canon LP-E6 batteries (Battery = multiple Cells, so AA = 'Cell' and not 'Battery') which have quite low resistance, so can be charged faster using 1200mA standard charger, AA rechargeable cells have greater resistance, thus need longer to charge. Plus AA cells may be recharged from zero or near zero, whereas Li-Ion batteries perform better if they're topped up more frequently and is not advisable to let them go completely dead (laptops or DSLR batteries) as they may then stop accepting any charge whatsoever leading to quite costly replacement.

JohnnyWashngo

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 10:13:15 AM »
I use a technoline charger similar to this one...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Technoline-Intelligent-battery-charger-Version/dp/B003S4JQS2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346681260&sr=1-1

... for charging my eneloops. I tend to charge them very slowly which usually means it takes several hours to fully recharge them. That charger is also really good for reawakening 'dead' batteries. I have managed to get a good deal of life out of older batteries that I thought were for the recycle bin.

I have ditched all my old fast chargers now due to them being generally rubbish :)

SDsc0rch

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 10:42:07 AM »
thx for such informative answers gentlemen :)

rienz.. This is the charger I use

http://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-C9000-PowerEx-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer/dp/B000NLUSLM/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp

seems good to me - very full featured

tron

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 10:52:31 AM »
thx for such informative answers gentlemen :)

rienz.. This is the charger I use

http://www.amazon.com/Powerex-MH-C9000-PowerEx-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer/dp/B000NLUSLM/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp

seems good to me - very full featured

+1 It is this charger with Eneloop batteries for me too.

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 10:52:31 AM »

Jimbo

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2012, 12:17:42 PM »
Sorry for the use of the term batteries instead of cells, English ist not my native language and in colloquial German, the term Batterie is (incorrectly) being used for single cells as well.

About the recommended charging current:

C/5 might be the theoretically best current, but I have seen quite a few chargers who miss the -deltaV drop at these currents because it is too smooth, thereby overcharging cells.
Overcharging is a lot more damaging to NiMH cells than any good ultra quick charger on the market wold ever be. Only a deep discharge (possibly even followed by a reverse of polarity) is worse.

Also, most people, including myself do not charge cells often enough to really worry about reaching the maximum cycle number. If you recharge your cells 4 times a week, 1500 cycles would mean a 7 year service life.
Most people will recharge their cells a lot less often, thereby reaching a multitude of that so I just don't see the point.

Given that even Sanyo's data sheets state a 1C charge, I still believe a 1/2C or 1/3C charge can be done without worrying.

PS: NiMH cells and Li-Ion cells/batteries like the LP-E6 cannot be compared. Their totally different chemistry leads to fundamental differences in the charging process.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 12:31:45 PM by Jimbo »

tron

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2012, 12:48:02 PM »
I remember reading that the charging current for NiMh cells has to be over 1/2C (even by a little) for the chargers to stop charging correctly. I am sorry I am writing this by heart. I do not remember where I have read it (so please check for yourselves too).

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Re: Batteries for Canon EX 600 RT...
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2012, 12:48:02 PM »