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Author Topic: gear advice for second body  (Read 3468 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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gear advice for second body
« on: August 31, 2012, 01:26:36 AM »
Slight conundrum over here and not quite sure which way to go.  I have a 7D and an 5dmk3.  Since I bought the mk3 the poor 7d has sat on a shelf.  I brought it with me on a few weddings but just could't reason why I'd bust it out (go figure, can the 7d pull down awseom f8 images at 1/125th and ISO 6400???  Nope...lol.  On the last wedding though, I did find myself not liking the run back to my lenses to swap (missing the moment), or staying with the lens on camera (getting the moment but not in the way I wanted).  I have a 24-70 and a 70-200 currently.  So what I am thinking is pick up a fast prime for the 7D (or, save up for a second mk3!). 

So, which primes would work?  I really like the idea of a 50mm 1.4, but, i think I'd really like that for the mk3.  50 on a 7d would be more like 80mm.  So would that lead to too much overlap? I want to be able to pull the 7d back into the fray.  Would a 50mm be too long?  Other lenses I'm considering, the 28 1.8, not as fast as the 50, but it would be like a 50 on FF.  The 35mm 2.0 also looks nice, it's a stop less than the 28, but closer to the range I'm thinking.  Or, more expensive but go the opposite direction - the 135mm 2.0 (hard to bite the bullet of a $1000 lens for a backup body).

I feel like the 50mm has the most use on both camera advantages (for when I want to go nutty with DOF).  But 50 is more like 80 on the crop which makes the decision difficult.  80mm does not fit, lol.  I'm either range limited or range duplicated (why use the 7d+50mm if i have the 70-200 mounted on the mk3, and, if i have the 24-70mm mounted on the mk3 the 50 on the 7D really isn't a bump in range.)  Should I consider an 85mm 1.8? (go 85 on the 7D and 24-70 on the mk3???)  uggg....not sure which way to go...

 
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

candyman

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 04:05:32 AM »
The 85 f/1.8 on the 7D
Works very good indoor and outdoor on the 7D - good reach (through 1,6) And, less noise problems because of the f/1.8
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tomscott

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 04:28:57 AM »
When I shoot weddings I always take two bodies and keep a standard zoom on one, then keep swapping the lens on the second body between a 70-200mm and 50mm. If you want a prime for the 7D remember the 1.6 crop factor so a 50mm will be more like an 80mm.
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pwp

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 05:41:20 AM »
Either pickup another 5D3 or take a good close look at a low mileage 1D Mk4 which you can pick up pre-owned for around the same $$ as a gripped 5D3. The incredibly robust Mk4 is built to hack the daily grind. Even a high mileage one would be fine. It's a bit smaller and lighter than a gripped 5D3 and has that useful x1.3 crop. 1-Series ergonomics will quickly win your heart. The x1.6 crop is one of the tangible benefits of your 7D so you'd still have some useful crop.

For a lot of jobs I have no hesitation cranking the 1D4 up to 6400iso and beyond. No, the files are not going to be as clean as your 5D3 but will leave your 7D high iso work gasping for respectability.

By the same token, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. The 7D is a fine camera so long as you stay aware of its limitations. This applies to any camera from an entry level Rebel to a new 1DX.

-PW

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 11:33:12 AM »
dang, spent a good hour last night after posting here reading reviews on the the 135mm 2.0.  Not many dislike it.  Same goes for the 85mm.  Of course, for my purposes, the 85 would act like a 135 and the 135 would act like a 200mm. 

@pwp - I checked the 1dmk4, the used price is almost doable (if I was gonna drop mk3 money on this venture).  There are 2 on the b&H used store for about $4200.  But, I'd have to do some real soul searching on that one (along with some saving).  andthe obvious comes to mind, if i have 4k why not just snag another 5d3? (I mean, the only thing I dislike about the mk3 so far is that I don't have 2 of them!)

@tomscott, I'm well aware of the crop factor and what that does to focal length.  I want a lens that makes the 7d body more usable for both ceremonies and receptions while not overlapping what i have on the mk3, and the crop factor makes that difficult...

How sharp is the 85 wide open?

Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

2n10

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 11:40:09 AM »
Sounds like a 35mm fast prime would be the way to go.  You get 55mm on the 7D and use the 70-200 on the 5D3.  Or just get that other 5D3 you so desire.
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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 12:33:14 PM »
Slight conundrum over here and not quite sure which way to go.  I have a 7D and an 5dmk3.  Since I bought the mk3 the poor 7d has sat on a shelf.  I brought it with me on a few weddings but just could't reason why I'd bust it out (go figure, can the 7d pull down awseom f8 images at 1/125th and ISO 6400???  Nope...lol.  On the last wedding though, I did find myself not liking the run back to my lenses to swap (missing the moment), or staying with the lens on camera (getting the moment but not in the way I wanted).  I have a 24-70 and a 70-200 currently.  So what I am thinking is pick up a fast prime for the 7D (or, save up for a second mk3!). 

So, which primes would work?  I really like the idea of a 50mm 1.4, but, i think I'd really like that for the mk3.  50 on a 7d would be more like 80mm.  So would that lead to too much overlap? I want to be able to pull the 7d back into the fray.  Would a 50mm be too long?  Other lenses I'm considering, the 28 1.8, not as fast as the 50, but it would be like a 50 on FF.  The 35mm 2.0 also looks nice, it's a stop less than the 28, but closer to the range I'm thinking.  Or, more expensive but go the opposite direction - the 135mm 2.0 (hard to bite the bullet of a $1000 lens for a backup body).

I feel like the 50mm has the most use on both camera advantages (for when I want to go nutty with DOF).  But 50 is more like 80 on the crop which makes the decision difficult.  80mm does not fit, lol.  I'm either range limited or range duplicated (why use the 7d+50mm if i have the 70-200 mounted on the mk3, and, if i have the 24-70mm mounted on the mk3 the 50 on the 7D really isn't a bump in range.)  Should I consider an 85mm 1.8? (go 85 on the 7D and 24-70 on the mk3???)  uggg....not sure which way to go...

Chuck, I use all primes and I've chose the 24L, 50L and 135L to cover all my focal lengths from 24-200 on a Crop+FF combo. It works wonders.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 12:42:44 PM »
Slight conundrum over here and not quite sure which way to go.  I have a 7D and an 5dmk3.  Since I bought the mk3 the poor 7d has sat on a shelf.  I brought it with me on a few weddings but just could't reason why I'd bust it out (go figure, can the 7d pull down awseom f8 images at 1/125th and ISO 6400???  Nope...lol.  On the last wedding though, I did find myself not liking the run back to my lenses to swap (missing the moment), or staying with the lens on camera (getting the moment but not in the way I wanted).  I have a 24-70 and a 70-200 currently.  So what I am thinking is pick up a fast prime for the 7D (or, save up for a second mk3!). 

So, which primes would work?  I really like the idea of a 50mm 1.4, but, i think I'd really like that for the mk3.  50 on a 7d would be more like 80mm.  So would that lead to too much overlap? I want to be able to pull the 7d back into the fray.  Would a 50mm be too long?  Other lenses I'm considering, the 28 1.8, not as fast as the 50, but it would be like a 50 on FF.  The 35mm 2.0 also looks nice, it's a stop less than the 28, but closer to the range I'm thinking.  Or, more expensive but go the opposite direction - the 135mm 2.0 (hard to bite the bullet of a $1000 lens for a backup body).

I feel like the 50mm has the most use on both camera advantages (for when I want to go nutty with DOF).  But 50 is more like 80 on the crop which makes the decision difficult.  80mm does not fit, lol.  I'm either range limited or range duplicated (why use the 7d+50mm if i have the 70-200 mounted on the mk3, and, if i have the 24-70mm mounted on the mk3 the 50 on the 7D really isn't a bump in range.)  Should I consider an 85mm 1.8? (go 85 on the 7D and 24-70 on the mk3???)  uggg....not sure which way to go...

Chuck, I use all primes and I've chose the 24L, 50L and 135L to cover all my focal lengths from 24-200 on a Crop+FF combo. It works wonders.

Would love to snag all of those!...LOL  Budget wise though, the only L of that bunch I can see myself justifying is the 135L - at $1000 it is quite the bang for the buck.  if i went that route, the 135 would pretty much live on the 7D, and the mk3 would then get the 24-70 , and 70-200 (on the mk3 the I can push ISO have more DOF flexibility).  If i went that route, I could also see the 135 in use on the mk3 too is i wanted to go nutty with DOF.

another option is to hold off on buying till canon announces the 7d2 and the entry level FF (if the entry level FF can do good up to 6400 ISO then that may be a good option, that is if its available before the 2013 wedding season...

I may just have to start renting some of these and doing some tests....
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 03:45:07 PM »
Well, we'll see how this goes.  Stopped by my local camera store where they let me play around with the 50 1.4 and the 85 1.8.  Both of them are really nice, so, maybe a good move, maybe not, but I ended up snagging both of them (ugggggggg! says my bank account!!!!)   So, now I got 10 days to kick around with both of these lenses, also, a good week to feel them out in different settings before my next wedding.  That will be the decider for me I guess, do I keep both, or return 1 of them, or return both of them???

Silly in house testing.  I tossed the 50 on the 7d and the 85 on the mk3 (so the focal length's would be about the same).  And now I remember why the 7d has been sitting on the shelf since i got the mk3...lol.  I liked what i saw from the primes on the 7d, but the mk3 just looks so much nicer in color tones, which I can fix up I guess in post (color temp on both cams was set on 5500k).  The bokeh also much nicer with each lens on the mk3 (which is to be expected on an FF).  I do have to say that I may very well keep both because I do like what I saw with each on the mk3.  It means I can offer some different style shots now to my clients as well.  I guess I shouldn't speak too much more on this, cause I'm only basing this on about a half an hour of using both - and I did not check to see how the files look off cam yet (that will be the real test I guess!)

Either way, thanks for the advice, When I do some more real shooting with each I'll post em!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

brianleighty

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 05:09:00 PM »
Chuck, the main reason I can see for keeping a crop body IS the crop factor. The 70-200 might be too long on the 7D for some venues but in my own church where I often shoot weddings it works out well having the 70-200 on the crop body since I can frame much tighter. Once you go above the 200mm range you're either looking at primes in the f/2.8 to f/4 range or a zoom that only goes to f/5.6. There are exceptions but they're big and heavy and don't seem to be very popular. You can get close to the 1.6 crop factor with a 1.4 TC but I think most would agree using a crop body is better than using a full frame with a TC due to the slower AF and loss in quality. If you find that you don't need anything longer than 200mm on your full frame then totally go for the 5D mark III or whatever other full frame camera they announce next but otherwise as others have said the 7D just has it's limitations just like 5D mark II has more limitations than the mark III. This is just my personal observations. I'm in no way a true professional yet but I think I'll always have a crop body at least as a backup for this reason.
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »
Sigh.....

While so far I am digging the 50mm 1.4 and the 85mm 1.8, I don't think either are really the solution to my original problem/issue.  I brought both of them along with both my bodies on a camping trip with the fam (figured why not torture all of them when they are dirty and not wanting their picture taken...lol).  All shots were candids, with the exception of a little sunset session with my gf (all silhouette shots though). 

Findings --- f1.4 is hard to use.  On many of the shots, the focus just missed (on both bodies).  I did not play with the aperture at all because I wanted to really get a feel for them wide open.  When using the center focus point i had more success than using the outer points, but even then it was hit or miss.  Especially when trying to get a crisp shot of my gf's 3 year old niece, she just moved too quickly.  I did some other semi-posed shots, of my gf at 1.4.  Profile shots, focusing on the eye, and yeah when the focus locked right her eye was damn sharp, but, even her nose was falling off into the bokeh.  So movement + wide open especially on the 1.4  ain't gonna happen.  Did some reading today too about focus shift, which makes sense especially seeing the results (neuro, tell me more about this!!!!)  My main goal with this purchase was to find a solution to the 7D dilemma for weddings.

After looking through all the images I have played with the the aperture a bit more.  The 50mm starts becoming more candidly useful at or above f2.  Similar with the 85mm, though the 85mm did have more solid results wide open (If I am right, its because there's a little less focus shift at 1.8 than at 1.4). 

Which makes me question a lot of things...  I do really like these lenses and yeah they will have a place in my gear bag, just not as much for the thing I was trying to find a solution for, that being wedding work, specifically trying to use these wide open on my 7d as to bring the ISO down so the files from the 7d would line up a bit better with files from the mkiii.  I can see these primes being used for the wedding ceremonies where there are many silent and still moments.  But the reception is a whole different animal.  I don't see myself using these wide open there, more likely I'd be at f4ish range.  I will be able to get unique images from these lenses in that range, but on the 7d I have to figure a new plan. 

Maybe I've just gotten too used to the flexibility the mk3 gives me at high ISO's.  For the 7D, I may just have to get creative with strobe/on cam flash (which is stuff I was working on prior to the mk3 purchase...)
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Random Orbits

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 04:39:49 PM »
Sigh.....

While so far I am digging the 50mm 1.4 and the 85mm 1.8, I don't think either are really the solution to my original problem/issue.  I brought both of them along with both my bodies on a camping trip with the fam (figured why not torture all of them when they are dirty and not wanting their picture taken...lol).  All shots were candids, with the exception of a little sunset session with my gf (all silhouette shots though). 

Findings --- f1.4 is hard to use.  On many of the shots, the focus just missed (on both bodies).  I did not play with the aperture at all because I wanted to really get a feel for them wide open.  When using the center focus point i had more success than using the outer points, but even then it was hit or miss.  Especially when trying to get a crisp shot of my gf's 3 year old niece, she just moved too quickly.  I did some other semi-posed shots, of my gf at 1.4.  Profile shots, focusing on the eye, and yeah when the focus locked right her eye was damn sharp, but, even her nose was falling off into the bokeh.  So movement + wide open especially on the 1.4  ain't gonna happen.  Did some reading today too about focus shift, which makes sense especially seeing the results (neuro, tell me more about this!!!!)  My main goal with this purchase was to find a solution to the 7D dilemma for weddings.

After looking through all the images I have played with the the aperture a bit more.  The 50mm starts becoming more candidly useful at or above f2.  Similar with the 85mm, though the 85mm did have more solid results wide open (If I am right, its because there's a little less focus shift at 1.8 than at 1.4). 

Which makes me question a lot of things...  I do really like these lenses and yeah they will have a place in my gear bag, just not as much for the thing I was trying to find a solution for, that being wedding work, specifically trying to use these wide open on my 7d as to bring the ISO down so the files from the 7d would line up a bit better with files from the mkiii.  I can see these primes being used for the wedding ceremonies where there are many silent and still moments.  But the reception is a whole different animal.  I don't see myself using these wide open there, more likely I'd be at f4ish range.  I will be able to get unique images from these lenses in that range, but on the 7d I have to figure a new plan. 

Maybe I've just gotten too used to the flexibility the mk3 gives me at high ISO's.  For the 7D, I may just have to get creative with strobe/on cam flash (which is stuff I was working on prior to the mk3 purchase...)

I never had much luck with the 50 f/1.4 either.... according to a lot of posts on this group and elsewhere, the 50 f/1.4 starts focusing accurately at f/2 to f/2.8.  Wider than that and the 50 f/1.2 is better.  The AF of the 50 f/1.2 is a lot better than the 50 f/1.4 wide open.

Agree with MKIIIphotographer that the 35L is a good option for a crop.  The crop factor increases your DOF, which helps shooting wide open (or nearly wide open) for multiple subjects.  The 24L II is also good if you like something a little wider.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 04:56:15 PM »


Sounds like a lot of what you are writing about has to do with a very shallow DOF. I own all the lenses you are speaking of... 50 (1.8,1.4,1.2), 85 (1.8, 1.2) and the 135. I also use the 14L, 24L, 35L, and  200L f/2. I shoot with a 7D, mkII, mkIII and a 1DX... they all produce great images. Unfort with these lenses you're going to have to really consider their uses and the DOF. Fast primes are not like your zooms... for them to perfom you must really have good form. They are not point and shoot and they do not magically transform your skill level.

If you're looking for a fast prime for your 7D... look no further than the 35L. It sings on the crop 7D and work beautifully on the FF's. It will require you to brush up on your shooting skills to perfom at it's best.

Interestingly...I just did a less than scientific test rolling up the aperture with each shot (should have used a tripod).  YES, controlling shallow depth of field is gonna be a bit of a learning process!  The hard part now is still deciding whether to keep 1 of them or keep both given that neither really fill the need I was seeking to fill - but - I can think of a lot of other uses for them!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

bigmag13

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 05:13:14 PM »
Slight conundrum over here and not quite sure which way to go.  I have a 7D and an 5dmk3.  Since I bought the mk3 the poor 7d has sat on a shelf.  I brought it with me on a few weddings but just could't reason why I'd bust it out (go figure, can the 7d pull down awseom f8 images at 1/125th and ISO 6400???  Nope...lol.  On the last wedding though, I did find myself not liking the run back to my lenses to swap (missing the moment), or staying with the lens on camera (getting the moment but not in the way I wanted).  I have a 24-70 and a 70-200 currently.  So what I am thinking is pick up a fast prime for the 7D (or, save up for a second mk3!). 

So, which primes would work?  I really like the idea of a 50mm 1.4, but, i think I'd really like that for the mk3.  50 on a 7d would be more like 80mm.  So would that lead to too much overlap? I want to be able to pull the 7d back into the fray.  Would a 50mm be too long?  Other lenses I'm considering, the 28 1.8, not as fast as the 50, but it would be like a 50 on FF.  The 35mm 2.0 also looks nice, it's a stop less than the 28, but closer to the range I'm thinking.  Or, more expensive but go the opposite direction - the 135mm 2.0 (hard to bite the bullet of a $1000 lens for a backup body).

I feel like the 50mm has the most use on both camera advantages (for when I want to go nutty with DOF).  But 50 is more like 80 on the crop which makes the decision difficult.  80mm does not fit, lol.  I'm either range limited or range duplicated (why use the 7d+50mm if i have the 70-200 mounted on the mk3, and, if i have the 24-70mm mounted on the mk3 the 50 on the 7D really isn't a bump in range.)  Should I consider an 85mm 1.8? (go 85 on the 7D and 24-70 on the mk3???)  uggg....not sure which way to go...

I used the Sigma 30mm 1.4 on my 50D when I started making money from this craft. on that crop the Siggy will stand up! I vouch for it so much that it was a no-brain er to get the Siggy 50 1.4  when I bought my 5D2. The Sig 50 was no where close to the IQ and color of the 30 so i sold that off. but trust me, the 30 on a crop is GREAT. test one in store and I'm sure you'll end any head aches about what to do.

besides, why not use a harness for both cams (in which I do- the black rapid brand) to stay prepared for any shots. 
5D3,5D2,6D,70-200 2.8Lii, 135L, 24-70Lii, Sigma 15 fisheye, Sigma 35 1.4(A), Zeiss 2/50, 600rt x3 and a st-e3 RT

brad-man

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Re: gear advice for second body
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 05:53:51 PM »
Sounds like you really have no need of a crop body. Sell it and pick up a 5D2 (new or used) or wait to see what's in the pipeline...