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Author Topic: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again  (Read 19371 times)

justsomedude

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2011, 03:27:30 PM »
It would be better to send Canon all your lenses and body so they can adjust them to match each other. I recently got two new lenses and check the focus to make sure the variances of the body and lenses were ok. Everything checked out. Read the article on the main page "This lens is soft..." Very informative.

Micro adjust will work just fine though. I think it will store the info for 20 different lenses.

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience with the 7D. I love mine.

EYEONE...

Thank you so much for this post and the reference to the article.  I was always apprehensive about MF adjustments, as it was always described to me as a "last resort" type of thing that was a band-aid to a larger problem (lens issue? body issue? etc.).

It seems that manufacturing tolerances are there, and maybe I just got lucky in the past with my 40D.  I'm reading up on MF adjustment and plan to do some.  I'll report back my results.

Thanks again everyone for the support/posts!

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2011, 03:27:30 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2011, 03:32:58 PM »
Is that a proper "fix" though?  Manual says to avoid MF adjustments unless absolutely necessary.  Seems odd that a new body would be incompatible with so many lenses... no?

"Avoid MF adjustments unless absolutely necessary," doesn't mean don't do them at all.  The feature is there for a reason.  Looking at your image of the 50/1.8 box, I'd say that an adjustment was absolutely necessary. 

If you're waiting for a magical, "tried and true 5D mkII," you might be disappointed.  I have both a 7D and a 5DII, and my AFMA results are below.

I've calibrated 14 lenses on my 7D, and 13 of them have had some amount of adjustment applied.  Obviously, the amount of AF microadjustment needed will be different for each unique camera and lens combo, so these numbers are useless to anyone else, but to give you an idea here they are:

–5   EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
+9   EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
+1   EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
+2   EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
+2   EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
+6   EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM + 1.4x
–7   EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
–3   EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
±0   EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
–1   EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
–1   EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
+5   EF 135mm f/2L USM
–2   EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
+2   EF 300mm f/4L IS USM

On my 5DII, I've calibrated 8 lenses and all of them have needed some adjustment:

+5   EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
+6   EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
–1   EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
–3   EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
+4   EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM + 1.4x
+5   EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
+5   EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
+3   EF 135mm f/2L USM

An adjustment of up to ±2 would probably not be 'absolutely necessary' in most situations.  But, an adjustment of ±4 means that the lens+body combo is off by approximately 1/2 the depth of field for shots at a 'normal' distance (i.e. not close to the MFD or infinity) - that's enough to be noticeable in typical shooting, at least for me.

I use the LensAlign to do my AF microadjustment calibrations (I use the Pro version, which is no longer available; the MkII version is an update to the also-discontinued LensAlign Lite that incorporates the important features of the Pro version). 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 03:40:52 PM by neuroanatomist »
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justsomedude

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 03:40:29 PM »
An adjustment of up to ±2 would probably not be 'absolutely necessary' in most situations.  But, an adjustment of ±4 means that the lens+body combo is off by approximately 1/2 the depth of field for shots at a 'normal' distance (i.e. not close to the MFD or infinity) - that's enough to be noticeable in typical shooting, at least for me.

I use the LensAlign Pro to do my AF microadjustment calibrations.

Wow... another awesome post!  Thanks neuroanatomist!!!!!!

Macadameane

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 03:49:30 PM »
I've posted a few times about the camera not reading 1/3rd of my video files.  The old ones still have issues, but I did a bunch of test shots and haven't had the problem since 1.2.5

Thanks Canon.  Now give me audio gain disable.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 03:53:37 PM »
Now give me audio gain disable.

Don't hold your breath...   :P


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epsiloneri

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 04:03:29 PM »
I'm reading up on MF adjustment and plan to do some.

Dude, if you're interested in trying out micro adjustments, I did some experimentation with it a while ago and reported my experience with it (for both 7D and 5DII) in this thread.

skitron

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 05:22:54 PM »
I would agree that maybe micro adjust "all lens" or "body" (can't recall what the menu says). It looks like a bad front focus and probably the 10% good shots are when it "misses"?

Is that a proper "fix" though?  Manual says to avoid MF adjustments unless absolutely necessary.  Seems odd that a new body would be incompatible with so many lenses... no?

I found it extremely easy to do with a makeshift similar to a Lens Align Pro (basically a ruler and a small target). Helped a bunch and is totally non-invasive in that its just a setting on a menu that you can undo at any time. I'd sure try it out since it's free and only takes a few minutes...might save you sending all your stuff in to Canon, though I'm sure they'd fix you up. My new 50d seems to be off 5 or 6 clicks since my new 100mm L macro on this body needed +6 and a new Sigma needed +5...so I'm thinking its the body not the lenses...but very simple to fix no matter what is to blame (and who knows what it will be for the next lens?).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 05:41:42 PM by skitron »
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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 05:22:54 PM »

skitron

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 05:46:33 PM »
I've calibrated 14 lenses on my 7D

–1   EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

On my 5DII, I've calibrated 8 lenses and all of them have needed some adjustment:

+5   EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM


LOL, pretty much a smoking gun in my book for body tolerances...seems like if any lens would have tight tolerances for "right" (whatever that is), this would be the one.
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justsomedude

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2011, 07:14:54 PM »
Thanks for all of the info and advice everyone! 

This kind of feedback is certainly reassuring, and helping me come to terms with my 7D purchase.  Perhaps my 40D was just right on the tolerance line with my set of lenses.  I had the 7D boxed for another trip to Canon Service, but I'm going to unbox her instead and do some MF adjustments tonight.  Heck, they already made "electronic adjustments" to the AF assembly, probably not worth a second trip at this point.

I'll whip up a chart and calibrator tool and see what I come up with.  Thanks again!  I'm already feeling a heck of a lot better!!  :)

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2011, 07:21:12 PM »
LOL, pretty much a smoking gun in my book for body tolerances...seems like if any lens would have tight tolerances for "right" (whatever that is), this would be the one.

A click on one body does not appear to change the AF the same as on a different model.  I recall a statement from Canon confirming this, but I'm not going to search for it.

I have a 5D MK II and a 1D MK III, and at least a dozen lenses. 

On my 5D MK II, my 24-105mm L required a +2 , but it really didn't matter much.  However, with my 35mmL which also required a +2, it made a huge difference, probably due to the shallow depth of field.

On my 1D MK III, only the 35mmL required a +17, while all the others are fine.  I just bought a 2nd 35mmL, it did not require any adjustment on the 5D MK II, but I haven't tested it on the 1D yet.

You definitely cannot assume the same correction on different bodies, I believe the firmware as well as body tolerances are in play.


epsiloneri

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2011, 08:12:07 PM »
You definitely cannot assume the same correction on different bodies, I believe the firmware as well as body tolerances are in play.

I tested this assumption by comparing MAs for a 7D and for a 5D2, for 7 prime lenses, and got the following correlation plot:



In this particular case, there appears to be a linear correlation MA_5D2 = MA_7D + 9.7, with an error in the mean of 1.3 and a scatter of 3.2. In principle this means that there is a "body MA" and a "lens MA" that are additive, and if you are lazy you can determine body+lens MAs for all lenses on one body, and then apply the "body MA" difference and apply the determined MAs on the second body. E.g., in my case I could measure the MA for a lens on the 7D and then just add 9.7 to get the MA on the 5D2. As seen in the graph, however, this isn't 100% fool proof, and there appear to be irregularities I cannot explain but may depend on a number of things. Also, the correlation is even less obvious for the 7D/5D2 numbers neuroanatomist find (which show overall smaller corrections [3 to 4 compared to my ~9]; he must have a better lens collection than I do).

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2011, 10:27:24 PM »
I have a 7D with a bunch of lenses including the 17-40mm f/4L which I have micro-adjusted to -4. At that point I have tested the AF by taking 10 shot with the AF and 1 shot with MF and all 10 shots are consistent and exactly the same as my 1 shot with MF. Micro-adjustment goes a long way and you do not need that $120 calibrating tool. I used the box of my 7D to take photos of the serial number while on a tripod; works just as well.

adamdoesmovies

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2011, 02:03:41 AM »
Now give me audio gain disable.

Don't hold your breath...   :P



I was coming here to beat this dead horse myself. Seriously Canon, it can't be -that- difficult.  Within a week or two of having access to the firmware, amateur hackers are able to do this kind of thing.

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2011, 02:03:41 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2011, 10:23:36 AM »
Micro Adjust was put in the 7D so people can make their own adjustments as needed instead of constantly sending them into canon.  Also keep in mind you may want to occasionally recheck you lenses every so often.  Changes in temperature, humidity,  elevation, etc can slightly change how the lens functions, hence why most lenses will let you focus past infinity.  So feel free to play around with it and if it still is soft, then send it into Canon.  Canon Rumors posted an article not long ago about variance in body models and lens models and how they mesh up.  Sounds like it applies to this.  I've found to the 7D in similar settings to show higher sharpness than the 50D, 5D m2, and most of my previous cameras.  It can be slightly noisier than older models like the 20D to 40D, but just slightly but sharper nevertheless.  There is a ton of Up-side of this camera but you need a lot of patience to learn to harness all of it's power to get the most out of it.   
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justsomedude

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2011, 11:56:16 AM »
Hey all...

I did some MFA's last night and got +16 and +14 on my 50mm f/1.8 and my Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, respectively.  The results are now damn sharp, but these settings seem VERY high to me.  Especially when I see people posting most settings in the 2-5 ranges. 

Does this seem normal?   :-\

UPDATE:  This is weird... My EF-S kit lens (18-55) came in perfect - zero adjustments.  I have an important shoot scheduled next week so I need to hold on to my body and lenses for now, but I think I may send the 50mm in with the body after that.  That +16 and +14 bothers me a little.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 12:11:44 PM by justsomedude »

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Re: 7D Firmware 1.2.5 Posted Again
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2011, 11:56:16 AM »