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Author Topic: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal  (Read 10598 times)

kaihp

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 02:18:52 AM »
I stumbled upon this thread and was previously looking at tools to adjust my lenses too.

Ive got 2 bodies, a 7d and a 5d3 and a bunch of lenses etc.

For the Focal software, is the Pro version worth the premium over the Plus version?

Also, does the software offer a full step by step guide on how to microadjust my lenses? How easy would it be on a 1 to 10 scale to do it via FoCal compared to the lens align and other similar product?

Upgrading from the Plus to Pro version is just the cost difference, so starting at Plus and later upgrading is the same as buying the Pro from the start.

Yes, the software guides your through the setup step by step. Also, detailed and (imho) excellent manuals are provided.

For the 7D, your print the target, put it on a wall, light it, put the 7D on a tripod connected to your PC and follow the Target Setup instructions and then run the fully automatic test. First lens may take you 10-15 minutes, from then on it's less than 5 minutes per lens/focal length/distance.

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 02:18:52 AM »

nismohks

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 02:45:30 AM »
I stumbled upon this thread and was previously looking at tools to adjust my lenses too.

Ive got 2 bodies, a 7d and a 5d3 and a bunch of lenses etc.

For the Focal software, is the Pro version worth the premium over the Plus version?

Also, does the software offer a full step by step guide on how to microadjust my lenses? How easy would it be on a 1 to 10 scale to do it via FoCal compared to the lens align and other similar product?

Upgrading from the Plus to Pro version is just the cost difference, so starting at Plus and later upgrading is the same as buying the Pro from the start.

Yes, the software guides your through the setup step by step. Also, detailed and (imho) excellent manuals are provided.

For the 7D, your print the target, put it on a wall, light it, put the 7D on a tripod connected to your PC and follow the Target Setup instructions and then run the fully automatic test. First lens may take you 10-15 minutes, from then on it's less than 5 minutes per lens/focal length/distance.

Ah ok, that sounds pretty good :)

So for the 5D3, it's a similar affair but i have to enter in the microadjustment settings myself after it calculates it, is that right?

Another question, for my zooms (24-70, 70-200) does it have to to adjust for a variety of focal lengths? What are the steps needed to do this?

Also, i only have access to a laser printer, would that be ok for printing the test sheet?

Cheers, much appreciated for the help!

snowweasel

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 03:41:20 AM »
Totally agree with FoCal. It was fantastic on the 7D, and not much more difficult on the 5D III. I just upgraded from, I think, ver. 1.4 last weekend, but I haven't run any new tests to see the difference, but from everything I've heard, it's much better now than when I used it. I recently got my 70-200 2.8L II IS USM, and am looking forward to running it with both the bodies soon. I went ahead and got the pro version (as I recall, it wasn't much more than any of the physical lens testing ruler devices).

kaihp

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 04:03:56 AM »
Upgrading from the Plus to Pro version is just the cost difference, so starting at Plus and later upgrading is the same as buying the Pro from the start.

Yes, the software guides your through the setup step by step. Also, detailed and (imho) excellent manuals are provided.

For the 7D, your print the target, put it on a wall, light it, put the 7D on a tripod connected to your PC and follow the Target Setup instructions and then run the fully automatic test. First lens may take you 10-15 minutes, from then on it's less than 5 minutes per lens/focal length/distance.

Ah ok, that sounds pretty good :)

So for the 5D3, it's a similar affair but i have to enter in the microadjustment settings myself after it calculates it, is that right?

Another question, for my zooms (24-70, 70-200) does it have to to adjust for a variety of focal lengths? What are the steps needed to do this?

Also, i only have access to a laser printer, would that be ok for printing the test sheet?

Cheers, much appreciated for the help!
For the 5D3, FoCal will ask you to set the microadjustment amount to the value it needs, for each step (usually, it goes <existing value>, -20, -10, 0, +10, +20, and then a 3/2/1-value stepping depending on the fit quality. Maybe 15 datapoints in total.

For the 7D, you can only enter a single AFMA value, which is used for all focal lengths. For the 1Dx and the 5D3, there are two values: Wide and Tele. I usually do four tests: max Wide/ and max Tele (e.g. 24mm and 70mm on my 24-70mm Mk I) and two distances (2m and 5m to target). It all depends on how much effort you want to put into the calibration.

I used a laser printer for the target as well (I don't have easy access to an inkjet) and while I can see that the glare/reflection causes some loss of accuracy, you should be OK.

I like the Pro features and since it was just £30 more than the Plus (£70 vs £40 for the Plus), I went for it. Again, you can start with the Plus for £40 and if you regret not getting the Pro then just pay the £30 to get the extra features.

Cheers!

Dylan777

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 01:55:21 PM »


Hi guys,
I'm thinking about Reikan FocCal Pro, do they provide setup distance for each lens?

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 01:57:16 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 5D III(x2) -- A7r
Zoom: 16-35L II -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 50L -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II -- Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8

bkorcel

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 02:00:49 PM »
For longer lenses I printed the target on A2 paper and just made the target size measurement adjustment under settings.  I've found it also helpful to print the target on a full page Avery address label.  I then stick that onto a black foam board.  Keeps the target flat and stable.  Easy to affix to a fence, wall, tree or train trestle (without the train going by).  ;)

Upgrading from the Plus to Pro version is just the cost difference, so starting at Plus and later upgrading is the same as buying the Pro from the start.

Yes, the software guides your through the setup step by step. Also, detailed and (imho) excellent manuals are provided.

For the 7D, your print the target, put it on a wall, light it, put the 7D on a tripod connected to your PC and follow the Target Setup instructions and then run the fully automatic test. First lens may take you 10-15 minutes, from then on it's less than 5 minutes per lens/focal length/distance.

Ah ok, that sounds pretty good :)

So for the 5D3, it's a similar affair but i have to enter in the microadjustment settings myself after it calculates it, is that right?

Another question, for my zooms (24-70, 70-200) does it have to to adjust for a variety of focal lengths? What are the steps needed to do this?

Also, i only have access to a laser printer, would that be ok for printing the test sheet?

Cheers, much appreciated for the help!
For the 5D3, FoCal will ask you to set the microadjustment amount to the value it needs, for each step (usually, it goes <existing value>, -20, -10, 0, +10, +20, and then a 3/2/1-value stepping depending on the fit quality. Maybe 15 datapoints in total.

For the 7D, you can only enter a single AFMA value, which is used for all focal lengths. For the 1Dx and the 5D3, there are two values: Wide and Tele. I usually do four tests: max Wide/ and max Tele (e.g. 24mm and 70mm on my 24-70mm Mk I) and two distances (2m and 5m to target). It all depends on how much effort you want to put into the calibration.

I used a laser printer for the target as well (I don't have easy access to an inkjet) and while I can see that the glare/reflection causes some loss of accuracy, you should be OK.

I like the Pro features and since it was just £30 more than the Plus (£70 vs £40 for the Plus), I went for it. Again, you can start with the Plus for £40 and if you regret not getting the Pro then just pay the £30 to get the extra features.

Cheers!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 02:18:16 PM »
I'm thinking about Reikan FocCal Pro, do they provide setup distance for each lens?

You choose the distance.  Canon recommends 50x the focal length, LensAlign recommends 25x the focal length (i.e. about 16' and 8' for every 100mm of focal length, respectively). 

Personally, I test all lenses at both 25x and 50x the focal length (and multiple focal lengths for zooms, wide, tele and 1-3 in between), then look at the overall results to decide the AFMA value(s).  It's going to be a compromise, more data drives a better decision.  I take into account the subject distances with the lens (close for the 85L, far for the 100-400, etc.), the usual DoF (weight close distance more with wide lenses).  It means lots of testing, which is why the automation is great.
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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 02:18:16 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2012, 02:27:05 PM »
I'm thinking about Reikan FocCal Pro, do they provide setup distance for each lens?

You choose the distance.  Canon recommends 50x the focal length, LensAlign recommends 25x the focal length (i.e. about 16' and 8' for every 100mm of focal length, respectively). 

Personally, I test all lenses at both 25x and 50x the focal length (and multiple focal lengths for zooms, wide, tele and 1-3 in between), then look at the overall results to decide the AFMA value(s).  It's going to be a compromise, more data drives a better decision.  I take into account the subject distances with the lens (close for the 85L, far for the 100-400, etc.), the usual DoF (weight close distance more with wide lenses).  It means lots of testing, which is why the automation is great.
For fast lenses, f 1.8 and faster, I tend to prefer the 25X distance, but for telephotos that are used mostly on far away objects, I use 50X if I can.
My Canon 100mm L is a puzzle.  A totally different AFMA at close distances of a couple feet or less than at normal 7-20 ft distances.

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2012, 02:28:41 PM »
I'm thinking about Reikan FocCal Pro, do they provide setup distance for each lens?
It means lots of testing, which is why the automation is great.

Which is why I am not happy that Canon took out the ability to change the AFMA via the SKDs meaning that programmers can't automate the 1DX and 5D3.  :o
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »
Which is why I am not happy that Canon took out the ability to change the AFMA via the SKDs meaning that programmers can't automate the 1DX and 5D3.

Ditto.  Honestly, I haven't tried the MSC mode - I did almost all my lenses before the 1D X was supported, only have the 70-200 II plus 1.4xIII and 2xII left.  I found that it was pretty easy to use the manual mode - I took two shots each from -20 to -12 and +12 to +20 in 2-unit steps (misfocused in both directions), and 3 shots each from -10 to +10 (misfocused in both directions, third shot without moving the focus ring).  Sounds like a lot, but it actually only took ~10 minutes per set to capture the images.  Then I ran them through the Manual Mode in FoCal Pro.
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Dylan777

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 03:11:46 PM »
I'm thinking about Reikan FocCal Pro, do they provide setup distance for each lens?

You choose the distance.  Canon recommends 50x the focal length, LensAlign recommends 25x the focal length (i.e. about 16' and 8' for every 100mm of focal length, respectively). 

Personally, I test all lenses at both 25x and 50x the focal length (and multiple focal lengths for zooms, wide, tele and 1-3 in between), then look at the overall results to decide the AFMA value(s).  It's going to be a compromise, more data drives a better decision.  I take into account the subject distances with the lens (close for the 85L, far for the 100-400, etc.), the usual DoF (weight close distance more with wide lenses).  It means lots of testing, which is why the automation is great.

Neuro,
To make sure I understand you correctly(50X):

1. 50mm f1.4 ==>  50 x 50mm = 2500mm(8.2 ft) distance from chart to camera

2. 16x35 ==> wide end: 50 x 16mm = 800mm( 2.6ft) distance from chart to camera
               ==> zoom end: 50 x 35mm= 1750mm(5.7ft) distance from chart to camera

am I on the right track?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 04:45:38 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 5D III(x2) -- A7r
Zoom: 16-35L II -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 50L -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II -- Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8

neuroanatomist

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2012, 03:20:00 PM »
@ Dylan777 - absolutely correct.
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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 04:11:16 PM »
Everyone is leaving good info here!  I use the lens align.  It works, but is kind of a pain in the ass to align.  Setting up a 400mm on a 7D at 50x length involves a lot of walking back and forth from target to camera making small adjustments and checking.  Takes a while to set up in those situations, and then there's going through the images and deciding what's correct.  Gets time consuming, so as soon as the Mac version of FoCal is released; I'm on it!  Sounds like a better/ easier system to me.

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 04:11:16 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2012, 04:15:27 PM »
It works, but is kind of a pain in the ass to align.  Setting up a 400mm on a 7D at 50x length involves a lot of walking back and forth from target to camera making small adjustments and checking. 

There's still tweaking to align to the FoCal target, but the advantage is the target is flat (e.g., taped to a wall), and you're aligning the camera based on input from the computer via tethering.  No more walking back and forth!
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Dylan777

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 04:45:03 PM »
@ Dylan777 - absolutely correct.

Thanks Neuro  :)
Body: 5D III(x2) -- A7r
Zoom: 16-35L II -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 50L -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II -- Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8

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Re: Lens align pro or Spyder lenscal
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 04:45:03 PM »