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Author Topic: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?  (Read 105287 times)

zim

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #300 on: September 15, 2012, 10:33:56 AM »
While I'm not in the market for this camera after buying the 5d3, I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it...  To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option... Do you want to go full frame and get better IQ but NOT want to take out a second mortgage to get the 5d3 or 1dx, OR do you want a 7d (or 7d m2 whenever that comes to fruition).  It's for that person that wants better images without all the fancy bells in whistles... That guy who may want GPS so they can utilize it for social media and the like...  It's no 5d3 but it isn't trying to be either...  While it doesn't get me excited per se, perhaps it would have many moons ago when I was a xxd shooter...  It is what it is, an entry level full frame.  Nothing less, nothing more.

For those wondering who this camera is aimed at awinphoto got it pretty spot on at page 4

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #300 on: September 15, 2012, 10:33:56 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #301 on: September 15, 2012, 10:55:51 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon.  For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so.  Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS.

EDIT: Not that I'm saying Nikon or Sony have superior technical specs...   :P
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 11:03:46 AM by neuroanatomist »
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azizjhn

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #302 on: September 15, 2012, 11:00:06 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon.  For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so.  Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS.

Agree since in there latest financial report says there interchangeable lens cameras units sales increased 47% compared to last year for the same period. I guess they have nothing to worry about.

gravy

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #303 on: September 15, 2012, 11:01:37 AM »
if the sensor has the new hybrid PDAF would that improve the non-(2.8)cross type AF points?
if the focus of non-(2.8)cross types is better with the new sensor would it matter then?
what have those with 650D said about the hybrid AF? any good?
I'm glad I got the 5DMKIII because this camera would tempt me.
to me, it is a case of buying more than you think you need vs. buying what you think will be sufficient.
I got more than I needed so I can't say that I wish I would have waited for something better to come along.
the 61 point AF is in another league compared to Rebel and 50D if had. it focuses in low light better than anything I've used before. I probably could do with out and be happy with 6D but it's a moot point for me now, some $4300 later!

simonxu11

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #304 on: September 15, 2012, 11:02:56 AM »
While I'm not in the market for this camera after buying the 5d3, I think you guys are missing the point... everyone griped they wanted an entry level full frame, they got it...  To me, I think this is squarely put right there for those advanced rebel shooters and xxd users who have the option... Do you want to go full frame and get better IQ but NOT want to take out a second mortgage to get the 5d3 or 1dx, OR do you want a 7d (or 7d m2 whenever that comes to fruition).  It's for that person that wants better images without all the fancy bells in whistles... That guy who may want GPS so they can utilize it for social media and the like...  It's no 5d3 but it isn't trying to be either...  While it doesn't get me excited per se, perhaps it would have many moons ago when I was a xxd shooter...  It is what it is, an entry level full frame.  Nothing less, nothing more.

If this was to be an entry level full frame camera 3 or so years ago, it might go down well.

Today it looks like "too little, too late."

Nikon have beaten Canon to market with such a camera.

The combination of the D800/D600 will easily trounce the 5D3/6D combo in every way.

Canon's problem is that when they set out to design these cameras "n" years ago, they designed them for what the market was doing then, not what the market would expect, demand and require now.
Cannot agree more mate.
And I also agree Chuck Alaimo said MP isn't everything, the quality of the sensor is more important. However, I don't think Canon will address all the issues such as banding and low DR in base ISO in this entry level FF sensor. Just like Canon claimed the 5D3 sensor is a brand new one, but the reality shows there's no significant improvement from the one in 5D2. So they were unable to do in a $3500 camera, don't expect much from this one.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #305 on: September 15, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Canon's first big mistake was putting only 22MP in the 5D3 with a sensor that performs about the same as the 5D2.

Having learnt from the lesson of the 1Ds3/5D2, Canon did not want to introduce a "lesser camera" (6D) than the 5D3 with the same sensor because lots of would-be purchasers of the 5D3 would simply buy the 6D instead. So the 6D will have 20MP to stop it stealing sales from those who want more MP (22) from the 5D3.

Where Nikon has outfoxed Canon is that their camera at about the same price ($2099 is close enough to $1999) but with 20% more pixels. Nikon were able to deliver a 24MP FF camera at $2099 because their next model up camera has substantially more megapixels - 36.

Canon's product lineup below the 1DX is screwed. They really need to throw it out and start over.

And why does Canon need to do that?

Because the number of megapixels in their sensors is now too low. And if megapixels didn't matter then why wouldn't the 6D have the same, if not more, than the 5D3?

You must have gotten the MP kool-aid.  MP's aren't everything!  If the rumored specs said 24 MP, would that and that alone make this on par?  No.  Where the d800 differentiates itself from the mk3 isn't in mp's, but in IQ and DR at ISO 100-800, and above ISO 800 Canon takes the lead in both IQ and DR.

Back to why these specs suck.  It isn't MP's --- if it said 40 MP's it would still suck due to only having 11 AF points with 1 cross type at the center, and sd card only memory (unless this new sensor fixed the DR issues - but if it did, then the 6d would be closer to $2800).  Those are really the biggest issues. It's 2012, we shouldn't have to center point recompose on a brand new $2000 camera.  I could even deal with SD only if the AF was actually modern - it doesn't need to be the 61 point of the mk3, but dang it use the 21 point from 7d or the 45 point from the 1d4.  If it had at least that then it would be a worthy purchase and sit on my left side as backup to my mk3 (if the ISO performance is close to that of the mk3).  As it stands, the throwback to 2008 AF is useless, and SD only would prevent any kind of burst shooting due because SD wouldn't be able to handle writing at higher speeds.  So sorry, while I agree these specs are a big fail --- it isn't because of MP's...

Why is the number of AF points a better measuring stick than megapixels?
I typically only use 1 AF point, so if the camera has 65, 64 of them are useless to me.
And when one isn't good enough, I use live view.

Whereas I can use every megapixel with every photograph.

As it is with AF points, it is the quality of them that matters more than the number of them. If the 6D had 39 AF points that worked about as well as the 5D2's 11 then it wouldn't matter if it had 39 or 390 - only one of them would actually be of use. So it all depends on if the 6D will have 11 AF points then is the AF module simply a 5D2 "spare part" or a completely new module.

Oh, as for SD vs CF. It's a pointless comparison. It's a place to put digital photographs, nothing more. If the camera didn't have such a thing then that would be a problem.

It's called being functional --- Canon body experience --- XSI, 7d, 5d2, 5d3.  The difference in AF on the 7d and 5d2 is miles wideand the 5d3 AF is miles ahead of the 7d.  So yeah, MY expectation from a $2000 camera is that the AF would at least be on par with the 7d. 

SD vs CF.  It's interesting because the 5d has both for convenient comparison ---where I can shoot as much as I damn want writing to CF, when it switches to SD, 3-4 shots and you get the red writing data light.  I have found that the SD write speed is sooo slow that I don't even bother with putting an SD in there.  CF cards of any speed though are lightening fast.  Again, functionality ---this spec sheet has little to none of it.

MP's, so i guess the 1dx is worthless to you at 18 MP, and the nikon d4 must be an utter piece of garbage at 16.2 MP?  Need I say more?
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Wahoowa

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #306 on: September 15, 2012, 11:05:09 AM »
Why is the number of AF points a better measuring stick than megapixels?
I typically only use 1 AF point, so if the camera has 65, 64 of them are useless to me.
And when one isn't good enough, I use live view.

Whereas I can use every megapixel with every photograph.

As it is with AF points, it is the quality of them that matters more than the number of them. If the 6D had 39 AF points that worked about as well as the 5D2's 11 then it wouldn't matter if it had 39 or 390 - only one of them would actually be of use. So it all depends on if the 6D will have 11 AF points then is the AF module simply a 5D2 "spare part" or a completely new module.

Oh, as for SD vs CF. It's a pointless comparison. It's a place to put digital photographs, nothing more. If the camera didn't have such a thing then that would be a problem.

There are applications when live view is useful, however, there are much more of those that it's not.

Good for you that you can find only 1 AF point sufficient. However, for most photographers, that's not the case. Focus and recompose technique doesn't work well with fast primes when shot wide open. When I used 5D2 with 85L in well-lit area, even a slight move from an outer focus point would end up as the picture is out of focus.

So, to me, this camera would be a letdown if it has only 1 cross-type sensor. Still, I do believe that the leaked specs should read "11-point all cross-type AF (f/2.8 at center: Dual Cross Sensor)". 11 cross-type points would be a little disappointing, but definitely acceptable compared to only 1 cross-type.

I could have used this one as a backup if it has flipped screen and built-in flash. But it doesn't look like it's gonna come out that way.

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #306 on: September 15, 2012, 11:05:09 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #307 on: September 15, 2012, 11:16:07 AM »

Quote
MP's, so i guess the 1dx is worthless to you at 18 MP, and the nikon d4 must be an utter piece of garbage at 16.2 MP?  Need I say more?

Yes, both are useless to me. Now a Phase One IQ180 back with 80MP.... mmmm

Wow, so if thats what you expect then go to the MF forums because nothing canon or nikon is making will live up to your expectations...
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

unfocused

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #308 on: September 15, 2012, 11:19:08 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon.  For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so.  Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS.

A lone voice of reason.

I can't believe this thread: 21 pages filled with enough whines for several vineyards. And, all over rumored specifications.

For years I've had to endure full frame fetishists telling 7D owners how inferior APS-C sensors are and how they are so discerning that they just can't be satisfied with anything less than full frame and we must all be blind or incompetent not to see any difference.

Now, Canon may be introducing a low-cost full frame model and suddenly it's all about the features. No one has seen a single sample image of what the camera can produce but that doesn't matter, because obviously no one can produce decent pictures without 18 autofocus points and 8 frames per second.

Get a grip. The rumored specs reveal a camera that could be a significant improvement over the 5DII at hundreds of dollars less than what the 5DII sold for for years.

Reminds me of the whining that occurred when the 60D was announced. Some people just couldn't understand how Canon didn't offer all the same features as the 7D but at $400 less. If you want a 5DIII buy a 5DIII. If you can't afford it...well I can't afford a lot of things either.

I love this camera and the specs. It is one more choice that I, as a consumer have. Canon's decision to offer this camera doesn't take away anything from me.  It adds to my choices. And, because it adds to Canon's bottom line, that means even more choices for me in the future.

Go Canon!

simonxu11

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #309 on: September 15, 2012, 11:26:41 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Totally irrelevant. What matters is if they out sell Canon.  For the past several years, they have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do so.  Keep in mind, superior technical specs aren't the whole story - if they were, Betamax would have beaten VHS.

EDIT: Not that I'm saying Nikon or Sony have superior technical specs...   :P
If I am not the shareholder of Canon, why I care much about their sales figure, I don't get a cent from them. So I don't care about who out sell who as long as one of them still produces something to suit my needs.
Canon got a top-ace sales and marketing team, they also have a good reputation from offering excellent things to pros, no one denies this.
Superior sales record aren't the whole story especially we are just consumers. :)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 11:32:56 AM by simonxu11 »

RLPhoto

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #310 on: September 15, 2012, 11:38:15 AM »
Lets hope canon doesn't go the way Kodak Went... and we all know how that turned out.  ::)

Diko

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #311 on: September 15, 2012, 11:48:20 AM »

... It is one more choice that I, as a consumer have. Canon's decision to offer this camera doesn't take away anything from me.  It adds to my choices. And, because it adds to Canon's bottom line, that means even more choices for me in the future.

I agree with you about more choices, since I haven't yet bought the 5DM3.

However other hobbyists like me that wanted to go to FF or upgrade for a particular feature (e.g. higher ISO) are frustrated for spending "bad" cash. They feel being fooled.

Not a good strategy from Canon even if they ONLY wanted to compete D600
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

Khufu

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #312 on: September 15, 2012, 11:49:41 AM »
aaah, shucks...

I had just about convinced myself this was going to be a cheaper bodied (therefore ok to be) flippy-floppy screened, flash-poppin' "alternative/consumer/creative features" kinda model.

A 60D with a FF sensor, even at 18MP, would have done it for me... I know I've not been watching and hoping with the same ideals as everybody else but a FF 60D kinda made sense and really appealed to me!

I totally see why some don't understand who this is aimed at - I'm one of those they've missed simply by excluding the above expected "entry level" features.

Having said that I may still invest in it... I'm definately either getting this, a 5D2 with Magic Lantern or 5D3 - So I'm still with Team Canon ;)


Just to clarify/Justify;
External flash triggering via Pop-up flash, a lá 60D, is awesome.
shooting from the floor, more so than above-head, with flippy-floppy screen is also ace.
Sad panda.

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #312 on: September 15, 2012, 11:49:41 AM »

Musouka

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Re: Canon is out foxed.
« Reply #313 on: September 15, 2012, 11:51:46 AM »
Wow, this topic is quickly turning into doom and gloom!  :o

Where you're wrong is that the design and planning for this camera probably started 3 or 4 years ago.

Thus what you see in this design is Canon reacting to what Nkon/Sony were doing then, not now.

The features (including sensor) would have been locked down sometime last year.

But do product development cycles really work that way? My understanding is that companies develop several prototypes of the same product which allows them the flexibility to match the market demand (or what they see as the market demand) at the time of release. Features are probably locked down months before the release date and not years. This might also be the reason why you can get conflicting rumors for the same product. That's because there are several prototypes in the wild doing the rounds.

SD vs CF.  It's interesting because the 5d has both for convenient comparison ---where I can shoot as much as I damn want writing to CF, when it switches to SD, 3-4 shots and you get the red writing data light.  I have found that the SD write speed is sooo slow that I don't even bother with putting an SD in there.  CF cards of any speed though are lightening fast.  Again, functionality ---this spec sheet has little to none of it.

Isn't that because the 5DIII doesn't support the UHS-I standard for SD? With this technology, SD can rival CF in speed. Maybe someone should try this on the Nikon D800 to see how the SD fares against the CF?

danjwark

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #314 on: September 15, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »
I may be out in left field but Canon may have been a bit concerned that the D600 was going to be $1500. They were then in the position to try to come up with something to be in that range as well. Thus the 11 point AF etc. GPS and wifi were likely added to make it sound better as both of those cost next to nothing to add. Now that the D600 is out at a higher price with better specs, I can bet Canon is going back to the drawing board. These "specs" may have just been released to get feedback which if they read this forum, feedback has been loud and clear!

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« Reply #314 on: September 15, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »