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Author Topic: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs  (Read 102535 times)

hawkins132

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Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000
« Reply #345 on: September 17, 2012, 04:51:05 PM »
Quote
oh boy... you are wrong don´t make a clown out of yourself.

when i buy a throw away phone for 50 bucks that has GPS and WIFI and that i trash when there is no "charge" on it anymore... what are you arguing about.. you are wrong.. face it.

The throw away GPS and Wifi are easy to make, as they confine to industry mobile standards with existing blue prints, hence cheap to MASS produce, almost no cost to design and licensing. We're not taking aboutu GPS and Wifi for Canon.

Also, many throw away phone has refill options in many regions of the world, hence more revenue stream possibility.

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Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000
« Reply #345 on: September 17, 2012, 04:51:05 PM »

K-amps

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #346 on: September 17, 2012, 04:54:32 PM »
They do.  They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".

The problem is that they cripple the "lesser cameras" so that they're not complete packages, but lack certain important features that force users who can cough up to money to "upgrade": no afma on the 60d (worse than 50d, solution 7d upgrade), no cross point af on the 6d @f2.8+ (worse than 5d2, solution 5d3 upgrade), let's see what's next.

This is really the truth. I'm not sure why Canon refuses to compete on a level front with Nikon and Sony. Both companies put GREAT technology in all of their DSLR's, regardless of grade. Obviously there are some key differences, but in general you don't get a hyper-gimped AF system on an entry-level DSLR from Nikon...you get a competitive AF system with multiple cross type points and low-light sensitivity. Why won't Canon COMPETE?! This is getting rather pathetic. Its looking like we will have to wait another full generation before we see high DR sensors or reticular AF in any camera from Canon...let alone in every camera.

Agreed.  Canon is finally now releasing the full line up of the next generation after watching for too long... 1DX is great, 5D3 is great but pricey, then boom... the 6D is hobbled into oblivion but too expensive for average consumers and will still be too expensive when the street price comes down to $1600.

It would seem that Canon is absolutely out to ensuring that not a single customer that's on-the-fence between bodies makes the down-choice.

Initial sales might be strong as the first wave of customers who this camera is perfect for buy it... but then I think sales may drop.  That may actually already be happening with the 5D3... pre-orders were strong and the first shipments flew off the shelf... but then last week there was apparently a sale for $2750?  The most likely reason is that Adorama made a large order based on the strong pre-sales and then the bodies didn't move very quickly.

Making people wait 3-4 years for a model will make it fly off the shelves initially... but the 5d3 was not much of a exclusive game changer like the 5d2 was... equating the two by ignoring competition and getting lazy is where they faltered. The 20% price discount by a major retailer; a day before another overpriced release; only underscores where Canon marketing has their heads shoved.
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Ryan_W

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #347 on: September 17, 2012, 05:03:52 PM »
Ditching WiFi and GPS probably would have knocked $20 of the production cost, but the perceived value to users is what's making up the price. The price drop without those items would have been substantially higher, at least as high as one of the separate attachments, which is what, $300?

Also, the Magnesium alloy was probably an effect of the price, not vice versa. The logic goes that if you're going to hit a price point, customers expect a certain build quality. I doubt the inclusion of exclusion would raise or lower the price, but the exclusion would certainly make people less willing to buy.

If you ask me, the new sensor is probably the source of the cost. A new sensor requires new fabrication techniques which requires new equipment, and sometimes even new factories. Others have rightly pointed out that Canon already has a few FF sensors in full production they could have used for cheaper.  There may well be some new manufacturing process here that is underlying a major shift for them. haven't we read that these sensors will have larger photo cells than even the 5dMKIII had?

That suggests that they're testing a new technology (probably higher range and better noise reduction) on this camera since it will sell more units at a lower price and allow them to build more sensors and reduce the overall cost of production. That would set the stage for them to switch to the new tech (if indeed it is universal and not tied to the specific size of the sensor itself) in all cameras forthcoming. The unusually high price of the 6D indicates to me that it's an early adoption not just of a new brand, but of some underlying technologies.

Meh

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #348 on: September 17, 2012, 05:06:43 PM »
They do.  They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".

The problem is that they cripple the "lesser cameras" so that they're not complete packages, but lack certain important features that force users who can cough up to money to "upgrade": no afma on the 60d (worse than 50d, solution 7d upgrade), no cross point af on the 6d @f2.8+ (worse than 5d2, solution 5d3 upgrade), let's see what's next.

This is really the truth. I'm not sure why Canon refuses to compete on a level front with Nikon and Sony. Both companies put GREAT technology in all of their DSLR's, regardless of grade. Obviously there are some key differences, but in general you don't get a hyper-gimped AF system on an entry-level DSLR from Nikon...you get a competitive AF system with multiple cross type points and low-light sensitivity. Why won't Canon COMPETE?! This is getting rather pathetic. Its looking like we will have to wait another full generation before we see high DR sensors or reticular AF in any camera from Canon...let alone in every camera.

Agreed.  Canon is finally now releasing the full line up of the next generation after watching for too long... 1DX is great, 5D3 is great but pricey, then boom... the 6D is hobbled into oblivion but too expensive for average consumers and will still be too expensive when the street price comes down to $1600.

It would seem that Canon is absolutely out to ensuring that not a single customer that's on-the-fence between bodies makes the down-choice.

Initial sales might be strong as the first wave of customers who this camera is perfect for buy it... but then I think sales may drop.  That may actually already be happening with the 5D3... pre-orders were strong and the first shipments flew off the shelf... but then last week there was apparently a sale for $2750?  The most likely reason is that Adorama made a large order based on the strong pre-sales and then the bodies didn't move very quickly.

Making people wait 3-4 years for a model will make it fly off the shelves initially... but the 5d3 was not much of a exclusive game changer like the 5d2 was... equating the two by ignoring competition and getting lazy is where they faltered. The 20% price discount by a major retailer; a day before another overpriced release; only underscores where Canon marketing has their heads shoved.

Totally agree... there was huge pent up demand for a 5D3 by customers that would order at almost any price.  Beyond that initial demand the rest of the market is more price sensitive.  Time will tell how robust 5D3 and 6D will be over the next 12 months.

brad-man

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #349 on: September 17, 2012, 05:33:00 PM »
Ditching WiFi and GPS probably would have knocked $20 of the production cost, but the perceived value to users is what's making up the price. The price drop without those items would have been substantially higher, at least as high as one of the separate attachments, which is what, $300?

Also, the Magnesium alloy was probably an effect of the price, not vice versa. The logic goes that if you're going to hit a price point, customers expect a certain build quality. I doubt the inclusion of exclusion would raise or lower the price, but the exclusion would certainly make people less willing to buy.

If you ask me, the new sensor is probably the source of the cost. A new sensor requires new fabrication techniques which requires new equipment, and sometimes even new factories. Others have rightly pointed out that Canon already has a few FF sensors in full production they could have used for cheaper.  There may well be some new manufacturing process here that is underlying a major shift for them. haven't we read that these sensors will have larger photo cells than even the 5dMKIII had?

That suggests that they're testing a new technology (probably higher range and better noise reduction) on this camera since it will sell more units at a lower price and allow them to build more sensors and reduce the overall cost of production. That would set the stage for them to switch to the new tech (if indeed it is universal and not tied to the specific size of the sensor itself) in all cameras forthcoming. The unusually high price of the 6D indicates to me that it's an early adoption not just of a new brand, but of some underlying technologies.

On sensor focusing for the video crowd. Mirroless, STM lenses, etc...

Fishnose

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #350 on: September 17, 2012, 06:01:42 PM »
A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.

'Who cares?' - Canon cares. And their owners, their employees, their distributors, their suppliers etc etc. If this model is a total disaster it impacts everyone who holds a Canon or intends to do so. Lower profitability, less money for R&D, fewer new and useful products.

But you don't care....

rjhigh

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #351 on: September 17, 2012, 06:06:24 PM »
They do.  They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".

The problem is that they cripple the "lesser cameras" so that they're not complete packages, but lack certain important features that force users who can cough up to money to "upgrade": no afma on the 60d (worse than 50d, solution 7d upgrade), no cross point af on the 6d @f2.8+ (worse than 5d2, solution 5d3 upgrade), let's see what's next.

This is really the truth. I'm not sure why Canon refuses to compete on a level front with Nikon and Sony. Both companies put GREAT technology in all of their DSLR's, regardless of grade. Obviously there are some key differences, but in general you don't get a hyper-gimped AF system on an entry-level DSLR from Nikon...you get a competitive AF system with multiple cross type points and low-light sensitivity. Why won't Canon COMPETE?! This is getting rather pathetic. Its looking like we will have to wait another full generation before we see high DR sensors or reticular AF in any camera from Canon...let alone in every camera.

I own a sony a77 (in the process of trying to sell it), and the AF on it is pretty lackluster indoors and low light. I have no experience with nikon, but the af in the a77 is pretty much equivalent to the af in the 60d, which I also own and use as a backup to the 5d3 I bought because of how disappointing the a77 was. Apparently, instead of crippling af in lower models, Sony just puts the crappy af from lower models (a77) into it's flagship models (a99).
The moral of the story is that the grass isn't always greener. I was going to convert to Sony to take advantage of the cool new tech, and made it 3-4 months before I went back to Canon. Sony flashes are also notorious for easily overheating and being worthless until they cool down. I had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions, one being in the middle of a wedding ceremony.
I have no experience with Nikon, but they used an af system from their aps-c camera as well, and a lot of people at nikonrumors weren't happy about that either.

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #351 on: September 17, 2012, 06:06:24 PM »

dr croubie

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #352 on: September 17, 2012, 06:13:40 PM »
A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.

'Who cares?' - Canon cares. And their owners, their employees, their distributors, their suppliers etc etc. If this model is a total disaster it impacts everyone who holds a Canon or intends to do so. Lower profitability, less money for R&D, fewer new and useful products.

But you don't care....

I care. I want this product to fail, and fail badly. It's 4 years too late, it's almost practically the same as the 5D mk2.
4 years ago it was innovative. 2012, it's boring, it's overpriced.
Canon used to be innovative, now they're just a fat loser (wearing an "I'm number 1 so why try harder" t-shirt) getting rich on successes of past years.
I'm not switching to another brand, I can't, too many lenses and not enough cash.
So that means I, the loyal Canon user, who was suckered in during their 'glory days' of 5D2, 7D, 1D4, can do nothing to 'upgrade', because there is no 'upgrade'. 5D3 is an 'upgrade', yes, but i don't have that kind of money. 6D is no more of an 'upgrade' that a 5D2, used or new, and the 5D2 is cheaper.

I hope D600 sells big. I hope the a99 sells big. I hope the K3 isn't just a pipe-dream and sells (as) big (as pentax can make it).
I hope the 6D bombs and bombs bad, so that canon are forced to re-think "now why did this suck balls so much?", and they come out with something that is truly revolutionary (like the 1Ds was, like the 5D2 was), not a backpedal (like 1D4 -> 1DX was for birds/wildlife), and not treading water like this 6D is (4 years later and what, it's got a gps and wifi chip? what else? uh, nothing? same pricetag, MP, AF, and worse sealing? No Thankyou.).
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Stewbyyy

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #353 on: September 17, 2012, 06:14:08 PM »
I'm conflicted by this...

I'm very excited, this is pretty much everything I wanted; everything I hoped for. SD cards, LP-E6 battery, a good size, decent FPS (I like the 5-6 FPS range, not a fan of anything higher for what I shoot).

But two things have me asking "why?" and shaking my head in disappointment:
The AF system
The bloody touch screen

Why do Canon think potential buyers of this camera will want a touch screen? I just don't get it. Hopefully there's an option to disable it, if so then I have no problem with it.

The AF system though... this is disappointing. The camera is almost perfect, almost exactly what I wanted. But this AF system sound poor... one cross type point? Could they not have at least given it the 9 cross type point AF system in my 60D...
The reason I never upgraded from my 60D to the 5D Mark II was only because of the AF system, now, this hardly sounds any better at all.

I'm awaiting reviews of its AF performance, if it's not very reliable then I might just get the 5D Mark II and save a bit of money as well as getting a more solid camera.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #354 on: September 17, 2012, 06:22:43 PM »
If this model is a total disaster it impacts everyone who holds a Canon or intends to do so. Lower profitability, less money for R&D, fewer new and useful products.

Don't despair :-p ... I'm sure Canon doesn't care much about the 6d failing or succeeding! They're a big enterprise and make their money elsewhere, the pro market dslr with its high revenues won't be affected anyway. The 6d just fills in the "ff landscape" gap left by the phased out 5d2 since not all people need the 5d3 af system.

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #355 on: September 17, 2012, 06:38:01 PM »
They do.  They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".

The problem is that they cripple the "lesser cameras" so that they're not complete packages, but lack certain important features that force users who can cough up to money to "upgrade": no afma on the 60d (worse than 50d, solution 7d upgrade), no cross point af on the 6d @f2.8+ (worse than 5d2, solution 5d3 upgrade), let's see what's next.

This is really the truth. I'm not sure why Canon refuses to compete on a level front with Nikon and Sony. Both companies put GREAT technology in all of their DSLR's, regardless of grade. Obviously there are some key differences, but in general you don't get a hyper-gimped AF system on an entry-level DSLR from Nikon...you get a competitive AF system with multiple cross type points and low-light sensitivity. Why won't Canon COMPETE?! This is getting rather pathetic. Its looking like we will have to wait another full generation before we see high DR sensors or reticular AF in any camera from Canon...let alone in every camera.

I own a sony a77 (in the process of trying to sell it), and the AF on it is pretty lackluster indoors and low light. I have no experience with nikon, but the af in the a77 is pretty much equivalent to the af in the 60d, which I also own and use as a backup to the 5d3 I bought because of how disappointing the a77 was. Apparently, instead of crippling af in lower models, Sony just puts the crappy af from lower models (a77) into it's flagship models (a99).
The moral of the story is that the grass isn't always greener. I was going to convert to Sony to take advantage of the cool new tech, and made it 3-4 months before I went back to Canon. Sony flashes are also notorious for easily overheating and being worthless until they cool down. I had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions, one being in the middle of a wedding ceremony.
I have no experience with Nikon, but they used an af system from their aps-c camera as well, and a lot of people at nikonrumors weren't happy about that either.

Well, generally speaking I only include sony for their exmor sensor. I wouldn't consider Sony DSLR cameras as competition to Canon. The competition is in the Sony-Nikon alliance, and the amazing stuff that alliance is doing on the sensor front...both image and AF sensors. In the grand scheme of things, Canon is still amazing. I'll take Canon glass any day over the competitions. But, for all people will tell you, glass is only half the story. Good glass won't get you better DR if the sensor simply can't do it.

tome223

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #356 on: September 17, 2012, 06:51:59 PM »
Just got home and haven't dove thru the 25+ pages of messages on this topic....but as a 60d shooter hoping to upgrade to full frame by Christmas I am extremely disappointed with the 6d.  Namely, just the 11 points of af and the 1/180th flash sync.   How the 60d has 1/250th flash sync and the 5d mark iii has 1/200th and the 6d has 1/180th is just mindboggling.  I even notice a difference with the waving hands of my toddler using 1/180th vs 1/250th f;ash sync.

Couldn't have Canon at least given us 15 af points even if they didnt want to give us the full 19 af points of the 7d??????

I'll hope the 7d mark ii isnt as disappointing. 
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Helevitia

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #357 on: September 17, 2012, 07:02:45 PM »
If the 6D turns out to have IQ closer(meaning more than 50% from the MK2) to the MK3 with good ISO up to 6400 and the AF system turns out to be fast and accurate with low AF, do you think it would be worth upgrading over the 7D?

I ask because I bought the 7D in May anticipating an entry-level FF camera by year's end.  Unfortunately, like everyone else, I was a bit disappointed.  After soaking in all the info over the past two days, my thoughts are:

- wifi and gps seems to be a gimmick and will be mostly useless after a few months
- If the IQ is great(KR seems to think it's almost as good as the MK3), this would make it much more worthy
- Hopefully the AF system is new and improved.
- My one big complaint about the 7D is the poor ISO, even at 400.  Too much noise.  If the 6D can perform good with 6400 ISO that would beat out the MK2, this would be a very strong selling point for me.  I literally use NR on almost every image, even down to ISO 200.

Anyhoo, just wanted to see if people think I'm off my rocker or something else?

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #357 on: September 17, 2012, 07:02:45 PM »

jfretless

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #358 on: September 17, 2012, 07:10:12 PM »
If the 6D turns out to have IQ closer(meaning more than 50% from the MK2) to the MK3 with good ISO up to 6400 and the AF system turns out to be fast and accurate with low AF, do you think it would be worth upgrading over the 7D?

I ask because I bought the 7D in May anticipating an entry-level FF camera by year's end.  Unfortunately, like everyone else, I was a bit disappointed.  After soaking in all the info over the past two days, my thoughts are:

- wifi and gps seems to be a gimmick and will be mostly useless after a few months
- If the IQ is great(KR seems to think it's almost as good as the MK3), this would make it much more worthy
- Hopefully the AF system is new and improved.
- My one big complaint about the 7D is the poor ISO, even at 400.  Too much noise.  If the 6D can perform good with 6400 ISO that would beat out the MK2, this would be a very strong selling point for me.  I literally use NR on almost every image, even down to ISO 200.

Anyhoo, just wanted to see if people think I'm off my rocker or something else?

I don't see the 6D as upgrade or replacement for the 7D.  It's not the same kind of camera.  I've had my 7D for almost as long as it has been out and they will have to pry it from my dead hands to get me to part with it. 

Why not keep your 7D and enjoy it's features and benefits.

And if you feel that you really need a FF and can afford a $2100 price pointer, buy a 6D to add to your kit.

Two separate beasts in my opinion.

DianeK

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #359 on: September 17, 2012, 07:32:41 PM »
If the 6D was say $1200 the discussion would be entirely different... at that price it's easy to accept that the features are like a top end Rebel but it has a FF sensor.   But's it's not $1200.... it's starting out at $2100 and might come down to $1600 in time but not likely lower... is it a winner anywhere in that price range?

Yup, they are marketing a $1200 camera for $2100.  Maybe someone in Canon marketing is dyslexic  ::)  :P

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Re: Canon EOS 6D Official Specs
« Reply #359 on: September 17, 2012, 07:32:41 PM »