September 19, 2014, 02:03:27 AM

Author Topic: 6D or 5D Mk II  (Read 59627 times)

pwp

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1544
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2012, 06:15:09 PM »
The 6D is not for 5DII shooters looking for an upgrade. Better to drop that spare $2000 on the new 24-70 f/2.8L.
But for someone wanting an economical pathway out of APS-C, the 6D would be first choice over the excellent but now relatively ancient 5DII. The newer sensor, newer processor, no doubt improved AF array and other new features/incremental improvements etc make the 6D the clear choice.

But for extremely price sensitive photographers looking to move to FF from APS-C, the 6D will absolutely hammer the second hand prices of good, well cared for 5D MkII bodies. Really, we're spoiled for choice.

-PW

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2012, 06:15:09 PM »

DigitalDivide

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2012, 06:39:11 PM »
(apologies for the cross-post)

The 5D c was "the original entry-level full-frame camera"

The 5DII was the upgrade of the original entry-level FF camera, to which they added movie mode almost as an afterthought & turned the cinematography world on its head.

The 5DIII is clearly *not* an entry-level FF camera; it's very much a professional camera that sits in the lineup with cameras like the 1DIV.  It's got professional AF, professional construction & sealing (which is why it doesn't have built-in wi-fi & gps; the signals won't go through the all-metal body).  And a professional price...

But the 5DII is still selling like crazy several months after the 5DIII was released, because you can get a brand one now from reputable shops for a little over half the price of a mk3 (or a guaranteed refurb for ~$200 less than that, putting it comfortably under half the cost of its "replacement").

As noted here the other day, the 5DII just hit four years old.  The supply contracts on some of the components are probably running out soon, which means that some of the parts needed to make it won't be available anymore (or at least not in the prices & volumes that they're used to).  This would require redesigning circuits (& possibly firmware) to use newer components that replace the discontinued ones.  I'm sure Fukushima didn't help the supply contract situation much either.  The end result is that they have a near-obsolete camera (from a manufacturing perspective) that is still selling like crazy, which is not really a situation they've been in before in recent memory.

So they would be braindead not to replace the "just under $2K" full-frame position in their lineup with something in the segment that will continue capitalizing on the demand for an FF camera in this price range. 

And it'll appeal to a wider audience than the 5DII it replaces.  It's smaller, lighter, takes the SD cards that the cameras that a lot of people upgrading to it have, and has better low-light performance & better AF (which is why I'm getting one).

I think it's clear by now that the 6D is *not* in fact a reaction to the D600; if it was they surely would have put at least 7D-grade AF and the LCD viewfinder overlay screen in there.

The 6D is the replacement for the 2012 5DII.

I strongly agree with this view.  The 6D seems very much aligned with what the 5DII was when it came out - a class leading landscape and low light camera with great IQ but lacking the FPS and AF required for sports and action.

While it is hard to argue that the original $2700 cost made the 5DII an entry-level camera, it was most likely not possible to build anything FF worth having for much less.  Buyers would have expected semi-pro construction at that price point.  The 6D is much closer to what I would consider an entry-level price, certainly in Japanese Yen, although the weak dollar means it is not as attractive to hobbyists as it might be.  It looks to have been designed specifically to appeal to Rebel users moving up to FF.

The 5DIII by contrast is a great all-round performer, with excellent IQ and AF.  It is an altogether different beast, only lacking some high-end professional features and the bulletproof build quality of the 1DX.

I strongly suspect that Canon's main motivation for designing the 6D is to continue to sell to the 5DII crowd with a camera they can build for a lot less money.  The 5DII was probably not designed with such high volume sales in mind, and in any case advances over the last 4 years may reduce the manufacturing costs significantly.  Pros and serious amateurs now have the 5DIII as an upgrade option, whereas in the past you had to go to a very pricey 1D series if you wanted to move up.  Canon also needed a replacement for a long in the tooth model; add to that the need to cut costs because of the exchange rates and it makes perfect sense.

meli

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2012, 07:26:42 PM »
so, pwp,
But for someone wanting an economical pathway out of APS-C, the 6D would be first choice over the excellent but now relatively ancient 5DII. The newer sensor, newer processor, no doubt improved AF array and other new features/incremental improvements etc make the 6D the clear choice.

and a couple of days before:
Wow! Eleven focus points. That's progress.  :P
The spec list reads pretty much as beige mush.
I doubt this camera exists.

-PW

so do tell us again, that beige mush is the clear choice?

meli

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2012, 07:35:20 PM »
The 6D seems very much aligned with what the 5DII was when it came out - a class leading landscape and low light camera with great IQ but lacking the FPS and AF required for sports and action.

I hereby declare this as the funniest statement i've ever read in these forums. Its stature could only be challenged by a video showing you typing it down with a straight face   ;D

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2106
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2012, 08:04:51 PM »
Funkboy and Digital Divide: You are exactly right (despite the sarcasm of others).

This is the 5DII updated with the current processor (so they can phase out the old processors) and using updated manufacturing processes. I suspect there is also some savings on the sensor as well as I cannot imagine that sensor manufacturing has not become more efficient in the past four years. On almost all features it improves on the 5DII, yet is selling for significantly less at introduction.

A lot of the negative reaction here is due to sticker shock over the cost of the 5DIII. It's not unlike what happened when the 60D came out and 40D users were disappointed that the price of admittance into the top level of APS-C sensor cameras had become the 7D.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Jotho

  • Guest
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 08:43:26 PM »
Funkboy and Digital Divide: You are exactly right (despite the sarcasm of others).

This is the 5DII updated with the current processor (so they can phase out the old processors) and using updated manufacturing processes. I suspect there is also some savings on the sensor as well as I cannot imagine that sensor manufacturing has not become more efficient in the past four years. On almost all features it improves on the 5DII, yet is selling for significantly less at introduction.

A lot of the negative reaction here is due to sticker shock over the cost of the 5DIII. It's not unlike what happened when the 60D came out and 40D users were disappointed that the price of admittance into the top level of APS-C sensor cameras had become the 7D.
As always a sensible and balanced post from you. I would agree on this. A modern version of the 5D2 that fits in their manufacturing processes and that sells a bit cheaper. Not bad at all I think. The market will pass its judgement if it was the correct idea. I would bet on yes.

pwp

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1544
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 08:46:15 PM »
so, pwp,
But for someone wanting an economical pathway out of APS-C, the 6D would be first choice over the excellent but now relatively ancient 5DII. The newer sensor, newer processor, no doubt improved AF array and other new features/incremental improvements etc make the 6D the clear choice.

and a couple of days before:
Wow! Eleven focus points. That's progress.  :P
The spec list reads pretty much as beige mush.
I doubt this camera exists.

-PW

so do tell us again, that beige mush is the clear choice?

Hah! You got me! It's amazing the clarity you gain with more information and a good night's sleep. Yes, the 6D exists.

Even so, each comment was valid at the time. In the context of being a new EOS FF camera, the 6D has a fairly beige, uninspiring feature set. I'm surprised by such a relatively  ho-hum release from Canon.

In the context of direct comparison with the 5D2, the newer 6D would appear to be the preferred choice.

-PW

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 08:46:15 PM »

SJTstudios

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 09:25:55 PM »
The 5d ii is a great camera and always will be, but it was the pro big megapixel. The 6d is aimed at enthusiast who don't mind the focusing or fps. For such a long time, it's been "when the new model comes out, I'll get the new one." now canon is saying, "this is for you enthusiasts who want a ff camera," but what will happen when the 3d comes out, will the pros ditch the 5d iii?

Scott

  • Guest
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 09:47:28 PM »
I have a 5Dii and would be interested in 6D simply for the high ISO performance. I've never really had an issue with the AF of the 5Dii as i manual focus when the going gets tough and from what I've read you can also change the focus screen in the 6D which (correct me if i'm wrong) you can't do with the 5Diii.
There wasn't really enough difference between the 5d ii and the 5diii to justify the price difference but on the other hand the cheaper 6D has the higher ISO performance i so desperately crave + its in a smaller lighter body. IMHO i think it looks like a very nice performer.

So many new and exciting cameras announced this week and so little time/ money to shoot them all..

Andy_Hodapp

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
    • Andy Hodapp
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2012, 10:41:18 PM »

"What is your prediction regarding the used-price market for the 5DII? My guess is that if it's discontinued the price will go up and you'll likely pay more for it than the current new price."


When was the last time a digital camera went up in price because it was discontinued, it's not a collectable, it will go down in price.
Canon 5D MKII, Canon 17-40mm F/4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 II, Helios 44M-4 58mm F/2, Sigma 105mm EX DG Macro F/2.8, Tamron SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC USD, Canon 200mm F/2.8L, Yongnuo YN-560 II, S100 with underwater housing

krjc

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2012, 10:55:15 PM »
Easy decision, 6D all the way. For you guys who have a 5DII you wanted to sell, the price just went down by a few hundred easy. :-[
Now-> Cameras: 7D, 5D3, T4i, G12 Lens: 24-105, 10-22 EFS, 17-55EFS, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro IS, 70-200 2.8IS II, 100-400, TC 2 III, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x, 16-35 F4 L

Philco

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2012, 03:13:43 AM »
Since the 6D is post-600EX-RT, I assume there would be some advantage to having a 6D over a 5DII for HSS off-camera, though I know some people are not feeling limited by the 5DII in that regard. The only other possible advantage I can think of is that if the sensor + digic V more closely matches the color and noise of the 5DIII, it could be a capable back-up camera for me...but I'll still buy another 5DIII.

 If I was a hobbyist primarily into portraits, I'd be thinking the 6D+85L combination looks pretty good at $4,100 versus $3,900 for a 5DIII + 85 f1.8. For the photographer that wants to go FF, but have money left over for glass, I imagine the 6D will be a nice option once the 5DII is nola. For that matter, you could buy two expensive 600EX-RT's to go with a 6D and still come out less than a 5DIII....not ahead, just less.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 03:31:51 AM by Philco »

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4529
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 03:50:32 AM »
Since the 6D is post-600EX-RT, I assume there would be some advantage to having a 6D over a 5DII for HSS off-camera, though I know some people are not feeling limited by the 5DII in that regard.

While Canon says otherwise, it has been confirmed by multiple users that hss & x-sync works just fine with 600rt + 5d2. You won't get the in-camera menus and the new option flash groups, though.

The real advantage would have been if the 6d had a rf-controller next to gps/wifi - would certainly have been possible since it's not full metal.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 03:50:32 AM »

charliewphotos

  • Guest
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2012, 04:38:56 AM »

"What is your prediction regarding the used-price market for the 5DII? My guess is that if it's discontinued the price will go up and you'll likely pay more for it than the current new price."


When was the last time a digital camera went up in price because it was discontinued, it's not a collectable, it will go down in price.

Not sure about bodies but the used price of the 24-70mm mk i seems to have risen since the release of the mk ii...

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4529
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2012, 05:08:14 AM »
When was the last time a digital camera went up in price because it was discontinued, it's not a collectable, it will go down in price.
Not sure about bodies but the used price of the 24-70mm mk i seems to have risen since the release of the mk ii...

If the 6d af is at least "acceptable" and the 5d3 price continues to sink, I don't think the 5d2 will rise in price - though it might stick where it is now. The price 24-70 mk1 is ridiculously high atm, but imho that's just because the mk2 is not on the shelves in numbers and the used mk1 market is thinned by the long mk2 delay.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D or 5D Mk II
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2012, 05:08:14 AM »