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Author Topic: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR  (Read 58493 times)

DonHorne

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2012, 12:54:37 AM »
It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards.  For a pro that point is hard to overlook.


CF is obsolete.

I hope your wrong otherwise I'll be forced to by large cards. A few years back I tried to change SD cards while wearing gloves and ended up dropping cards in the snow. I'll gladly stick with obsolete CF cards.

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2012, 12:54:37 AM »

libertyranger

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #136 on: September 18, 2012, 03:15:49 AM »
... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.

Not quite true.  The f/2.8 line is superimposed on an f/5.6 '+' (technically, the f/2.8 line pair is outside the f/5.6 lines).  They act in concert. If the f/2.8 line cannot achieve focus, the f/5.6 line is used.  Also, the f/5.6 lines are better with substantial defocus, so often with a hybrid AF point, a 'coarse focus' is achieved with the f/5.6 line(s), and that's refined by the f/2.8 line(s).

Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure.  So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?

Marsu42

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2012, 03:33:15 AM »
... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.

Not quite true.  The f/2.8 line is superimposed on an f/5.6 '+' (technically, the f/2.8 line pair is outside the f/5.6 lines).  They act in concert. If the f/2.8 line cannot achieve focus, the f/5.6 line is used.  Also, the f/5.6 lines are better with substantial defocus, so often with a hybrid AF point, a 'coarse focus' is achieved with the f/5.6 line(s), and that's refined by the f/2.8 line(s).

Ah, thx for the explanation, the Canon spec does not only seem to be a mystery to me - are you sure it is this hybrid af? So does this mean, do you expect the center point af on the 6d to be "better" overall than on the 5d2, or does the hybrid construction (first f2.8, then f5.6 line) slow it down? This really will be the decisive point when people want either a 6d and the added gimmicks or a new/used 5d2.

libertyranger

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2012, 03:39:24 AM »
... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.

Not quite true.  The f/2.8 line is superimposed on an f/5.6 '+' (technically, the f/2.8 line pair is outside the f/5.6 lines).  They act in concert. If the f/2.8 line cannot achieve focus, the f/5.6 line is used.  Also, the f/5.6 lines are better with substantial defocus, so often with a hybrid AF point, a 'coarse focus' is achieved with the f/5.6 line(s), and that's refined by the f/2.8 line(s).

Ah, thx for the explanation, the Canon spec does not only seem to be a mystery to me - are you sure it is this hybrid af? So does this mean, do you expect the center point af on the 6d to be "better" overall than on the 5d2, or does the hybrid construction (first f2.8, then f5.6 line) slow it down? This really will be the decisive point when people want either a 6d and the added gimmicks or a new/used 5d2.

This is what I'm trying to figure out too.  I know with certain EOS bodies (T4i, 7D), when you use a f/2.8 lens you get a dual cross-type point.  One of them is an f/5.6 cross point and the other is a diagonal f/2.8 cross type.  For the 6D, you don't get the dual, but rather an superimposed high precision f/2.8 vertical sensitive point.  I can't seem to find any info. on the net as to whether or not the 5DII had this or if it had both horizontal and vertical lines at f/2.8 when using the appropriate lens.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2012, 06:02:45 AM »
Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure.  So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?

The 5DII and T3i have a center point with one horizontal f/2.8 line and one vertical f/5.6 line - that makes the cross. The f/2.8 line is more accurate, but only works with vertically-oriented features.  Worth noting is that all of the 39 cross-type points on the 1DIV are this type, too. for this type point, it's a cross only with an f/2.8 or faster lens (and only half f/2.8-accurate), with an f/4 or slower lens, it's just a single vertical line (although there are f/4 exceptions on the 1-series).

The 1D X, 5DIII, 7D, 40-60D, and T4i have a dual cross center point - an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with and f/2.8 cross in an 'x' superimposed.  This point type is fully cross type with any lens down to f/5.6.

The 6D center point has an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with a single f/2.8 horizontal line '-' superimposed. It behaves like the first type (5DII etc.) with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but is better in that it remains cross type down to f/5.6.

Hope that clarifies.
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2012, 06:10:55 AM »
The 6D center point has an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with a single f/2.8 horizontal line '-' superimposed. It behaves like the first type (5DII etc.) with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but is better in that it remains cross type down to f/5.6.

Thx for the explanation - so at least it's no regression in comparison to the 5d2 after all. Why do you think Canon did this and didn't add a dual cross type sensor - any possible tech reasons like the -3ev sensitivity, except protecting the more expensive 5d3?

sandymandy

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2012, 06:19:03 AM »
The 6D is gonna replace the 7D money-wise in the future. But its a full frame! Big plus! Probably my first fullframe im getting.

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2012, 06:19:03 AM »

samirachiko

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2012, 07:47:43 AM »
No CF= -10 points
No articulated screen= -15 points
New sensor(???)= -10 points
No built in flash= -5 points
No built in time lapse= -7points
Touchscreen= -20 points
AF= -30 points
Price= -30 points

Canon 6D final score= -127 points....  :(

This reflex is VERY VERY VERY VERY SAAAAAAAD

Canon if you don't know we are in the 2012...
Please see the Nikon D600......

I have wasted My time to wait for this (toy) reflex...
You have lost a customer...

Noink Fanb0i

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2012, 08:12:08 AM »
It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards.  For a pro that point is hard to overlook.


CF is obsolete.

I keep reading this misinformation. "SD cards are cheap, if you can afford to get the body, surely you can buy a few new memory cards." The problem with that is you lose the interoperability with your existing cards. CF cards would always be faster and have more capacity than SD cards due to the bigger real estate and built-in memory controller. Any advances in memory density that manufacturers can apply to SD cards can also be made to CF cards, the physically bigger area would ensure that it would always have bigger maximum capacity than SD cards. And people keep talking as if most potential upgraders to the 6D were using cameras with SD slots. The Rebel 300D, 350D and 400D all use CF cards. At the very least Canon should have made dual CF & SD slots for a $2000 camera.  ::)
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psolberg

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2012, 09:11:00 AM »
I've finally seen a direct head-to-head comparison between the D600 and the 6D, and it's not as cut-and-dry as some people seem to think it is. In three areas that are very important to me, the 6D actually wins:

1. ISO range. The 6D has two full stops more high ISO settings at the top of the range. Based on my experience with Canon cameras, I expect this difference to show up in real world performance. This is an extremely important feature to me.

2. AF sensitivity. Yes, the 6D has a very disappointing 11 point AF system. It's irritating that Canon clings to these basic AF units. On the other hand, the AF is one stop more sensitive in low light than the state-of-the-art unit in the 1Dx and 5D Mk III, and two stops more sensitive than the AF in the D600. I love to shoot in ridiculously low levels of light, and coupled with the superior high ISO sensitivity, the 6D would seem to have the advantage in low light situations.

For my style of shooting, this is much more important than dynamic range, and Nikon's sensors lose that advantage at high ISO's.

3. Weight. I've been dying for a smaller, lighter FF camera from Canon. The 6D is a full 80 grams lighter than the D600 with the battery installed. This sounds like an awesome walk-around and backup camera. I intend to buy one to back up my 5D Mk III, as its specs are superior to the Mk II's in ways that are very important to me.

I'm glad some find it good. I suspect the extra ISO stops to be useless for any practical purpose as they often are when the boundaries are pushed just so they can print it on a marketing ad. More likely both cameras will be identical and unless canon resolved its banding noise issues at low ISO, image quality will be practically a non differentiator. As others have said, the one point being extra sensitive remains to be seen how good it actually is but overall the AF system is likely inferior as 1 point won't offset the loss of every cross point besides it. It also can't focus with f/8 minimum aperture lenses so the TC story for this camera is as bad as the new ones.

ultimately there is one definitive thing canon can do to make it better and that is to make it cheaper since it is unlikely to capitalize enough in the few areas that it can as far as specifications go.

price it at 1500 dollars and I'll get one no matter how bad it is.

PerfectSavage

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2012, 10:00:32 AM »
This is ridiculous what Canon has done. I have been looking to update my 7D and was really disappointed at the price of the 5DIII. When I saw rumors of the 6D I thought my prayers would be answered and I would get a full frame 7D! This camera is ridiculous. It is a full frame 60D. Maybe this could be a backup camera or something but that is it. I doubt a ton of people want a full frame 60D and are willing to pay $2100 for it.
I am so pissed at Canon right now for crippling this so much (and why include wifi & gps?). They could have priced this for $1800 without those or have put in a worthwhile focus system instead. And not even a dual SD card slot????? Ridiculous Canon. Also, i'm pissed at Canon's new extreme pricing, and for making almost no improvements in the last 4 years in video. Even their recent lenses were disappointing, not in performance, but in usability. Who wants a f/2.8 24mm & 28mm prime and why put IS in that and not in the 24-70 f/2.8? Its obvious Canon knew no one would buy the 24 & 28mm lenses if the 24-70 had IS at f/2.8, even if it was $2,500.

The 6D is not a worthy upgrade for 7D users for sure so now the decision is to save up for the 5DIII or switch to Nikon where the D800 & D600, while not perfect, have alot to offer. I could easily get away with the D600 as a main camera and be very happy where the Canon 6D would even be disappointing as a backup. My only full frame capable lens is the 70-200 f/2.8 II and that is probably easy to sell.

No one other than those with the whims expressed on these message boards ever claimed it was an upgrade, let alone "replacement" for a 7D.  The 7D2 will be the upgrade to the 7D and it will not be FF, it will probably be a new APS-C sensor with better ISO/IQ like the 6D's sensor is a new FF one and also have some improved AF around speed/sports etc.  In fact, Canon's global Japan site places the 6D BEHIND the 7D in it's pecking order...check it out...1D series, 5D, 7D and THEN 6D....then 60D.   http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd-e.html

The 6D is an "enthusiast" camera as Canon has clearly stated repeatedly in every announcement and marketing piece globally...a FF 60D basically with much better ISO/IQ.  Haven't had my hands on one obviously but the specs look like the build quality is inferior to the 7D/5D as well, no real mention of weather sealing levels and it is not a 100% magnesium alloy body, mostly aluminum to decrease weight.  It's not a pro camera, never intended to be one.  Everyone seemed to want a "FF 7D" well, they have one already, it came out this past spring and it's called the 5D Mark III.
 
The 6D is an enthusiast camera to provide an option for those looking to move up from the x0D series or even Rebel that want a FF option but don't want to spend $4K nor need all the pro capabilities.  It is an EXCELLENT option to the 7D for those shooting landscape, portraiture etc that don't have kids or photography sports and action.  It is also a great option as a B or C cam for event photographers etc. that want to park a portrait prime on it.  Why pay for a 5D3 for a B/C cam when you can buy a great piece of glass (or even two lenses) with the difference?  For event photographers shooting a 1D series or 5D II/III as primary body, they would prefer the 6D and the new 24-70 L II (or other new glass) to a 5D III and no new glass as their B or C camera option, I assure you.

The 6D will sell...a LOT.  It's just like when the 7D was launched to give those moving up from a Rebel to the x0D series another option in 2009... "7D or 50D?? Hmmm...if I buy the 50D will I wish I'd bought the 7D in six months?"  Now those looking to move up from an x0D have another option other than a $4K camera in the 5D3 or even a choice of whether a 6D is better for their uses than a 7D...and those multi-body shooters have a much easier path to that second, third or fifth body they've been needing but have done without due to budget.

The 5D3 will be closer to $3K by end of year...watch.  My guess is the LIST price (forget the recent Adorama mistake or one-off drama on eBay) of the 5D3 will be $2,999 by the holidays...maybe cheaper if they drop the 6D down to $1,999 etc.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 10:12:53 AM by PerfectSavage »
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emag

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #146 on: September 18, 2012, 10:11:45 AM »
No MFA?  Not a killer, but......

preppyak

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »
No MFA?  Not a killer, but......
It has AFMA, the same set-up as the 5dIII. Its adjustable on both the wide and tele end of a zoom

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »

libertyranger

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #148 on: September 18, 2012, 11:12:25 AM »
Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure.  So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?

The 5DII and T3i have a center point with one horizontal f/2.8 line and one vertical f/5.6 line - that makes the cross. The f/2.8 line is more accurate, but only works with vertically-oriented features.  Worth noting is that all of the 39 cross-type points on the 1DIV are this type, too. for this type point, it's a cross only with an f/2.8 or faster lens (and only half f/2.8-accurate), with an f/4 or slower lens, it's just a single vertical line (although there are f/4 exceptions on the 1-series).

The 1D X, 5DIII, 7D, 40-60D, and T4i have a dual cross center point - an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with and f/2.8 cross in an 'x' superimposed.  This point type is fully cross type with any lens down to f/5.6.

The 6D center point has an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with a single f/2.8 horizontal line '-' superimposed. It behaves like the first type (5DII etc.) with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but is better in that it remains cross type down to f/5.6.

Hope that clarifies.

Thank you!  This clarifies it perfectly!

NormanBates

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #149 on: September 18, 2012, 11:14:55 AM »
No MFA?  Not a killer, but......

dpreview says: "The EOS 6D does, however offer the same AF microadjust as the 5D Mark III. Adjustments can be made separately for the wide and telephoto ends of zoom lenses, and can also be made per serial-numbered lens (should you have two copies of the same lens that require differing amounts of adjustment)."

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/3
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 11:19:38 AM by NormanBates »

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Re: Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR
« Reply #149 on: September 18, 2012, 11:14:55 AM »