December 06, 2016, 07:41:59 AM

Author Topic: 6D Sensor... why?  (Read 17747 times)

meli

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 11:10:36 AM »
According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

nice catch

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 11:10:36 AM »

preppyak

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 11:11:25 AM »
I'm not well versed in sensor technology, but the pixel-pitch of this new sensor is significantly higher than the 5dII and 5dIII sensor, so, it leads me to believe its a new sensor in some format.

Gothmoth

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 11:14:43 AM »
I'm not well versed in sensor technology, but the pixel-pitch of this new sensor is significantly higher than the 5dII and 5dIII sensor, so, it leads me to believe its a new sensor in some format.

where did you find that info?
have they posted it on dpreview?

AJ

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2012, 11:27:57 AM »
According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

nice catch

I wonder if those missing pixels could be activated with a firmware hack?

As it stands right now it's not really a FF cam - it's a crop camera with a 1.006x crop factor....

Omar H

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 11:39:11 AM »
this camera doesn't make any sense to me, other than justifying that they do indeed have a ff entry level camera, so from Canon it would be a message to us in the range of stop bitching about the 5d3 price and get this if you don't like the price. s##w u anyways!

As things start to unveil, we might see the goodness in this camera, but I'd still go for a 5dII hands down, rather than this.

daniel_charms

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »
According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

Nope. I did some quick calculations and the number of total pixels on this sensor is less than the number of effective pixels on a trimmed-down 5d2 sensor, so the pixel pitch is definitely different.

Besides, modifying a stock of existing components is, even if it's possible (and I really doubt that it is in this case), hardly cost-efficient. It's just plain easier to produce a new piece from scratch.

simonxu11

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 12:22:59 PM »
According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

Nope. I did some quick calculations and the number of total pixels on this sensor is less than the number of effective pixels on a trimmed-down 5d2 sensor, so the pixel pitch is definitely different.

Besides, modifying a stock of existing components is, even if it's possible (and I really doubt that it is in this case), hardly cost-efficient. It's just plain easier to produce a new piece from scratch.
I did my calculation as well, but I think canon also used other techniques (something difficuilt for consumers to find out) to achieve this. I don't think canon is that stupid to let us discover this just by any simple calculation.
All of these are just my speculation though.

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 12:22:59 PM »

extremeinstability

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 12:38:01 PM »
5D II had 12,000 and 25,000 for the H1 H2 while 6D has 51,000 and 102,000 for H1 H2.  Perhaps it's a trimmed down 5D III....not a trimmed down 5D II.  Or just all new.  Not that I know jack about creating sensors.
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simonxu11

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 01:07:44 PM »
5D II had 12,000 and 25,000 for the H1 H2 while 6D has 51,000 and 102,000 for H1 H2.  Perhaps it's a trimmed down 5D III....not a trimmed down 5D II.  Or just all new.  Not that I know jack about creating sensors.
The main reason of this because 6d has the latest digic 5+ processor.

K-amps

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 01:24:12 PM »
True... but since the pixel pitch "is" different, it cannot be the same sensor.  6.4 not same as 6.54 even if you put each sensor through a "visegrip"   :P
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ishdakuteb

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 01:47:26 PM »
According to pixel size, this will be expected to produce less noise comparing to 5D Mark III (since both are using the same Digic 5+)... but let's see.  However, to what i have known that every single new technology is an upgrade/improvement/and modification from early one...  try to talk with R&D people and you will find out...

Canon-F1

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 03:58:21 PM »
However, to what i have known that every single new technology is an upgrade/improvement/and modification from early one...  try to talk with R&D people and you will find out...

really?   ::)

well not every single new technology... but yes most new sensors are build on improved technology not entirely new technology.

Tcapp

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 05:17:57 PM »
Just wait, Canon is going to shock all of us and give us a sensor with ZERO banding in this 6d. That can be its big selling point. I think that is the SINGLE biggest thing canon can do to improve their sensors.
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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 05:17:57 PM »

UrbanVoyeur

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2012, 10:43:19 PM »
high MP fullframe sensors... high compared to what?  ;)
Compared to the 30+ MP senors from Sony.

so they decided to put money in R&D to produce yet another FF sensor instead of using the 5D MK2 sensor?
if it is a new developed sensor and not some camouflaged 5D MK2 sensor.

You missed the last part of my post where I suggested is might be the same sensor die as the 5D MkIII, but with a greater number of pixels failing to make the grade. These would then be averaged together as a single pixel. If you do that across a sensor you get very respectable performance but with a lower total MP count.

This sensor could also be the "failures" or less than top performers from the yet to be announced 36-40 MP FF sensor die that Canon has been working on. This makes more sense given the large pitch which could be the result of nearest neighbor averaging.  If that's the case, then Canon should be ready with a 36-40 MP camera before summer 2013.

Gothmoth

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 04:48:59 AM »
high MP fullframe sensors... high compared to what?  ;)
Compared to the 30+ MP senors from Sony.

so a canon 22 MP sensor is a high MP sensor compared to sonys 30+ pixel sensor.. no that makes sense.  :D
 

Quote
You missed the last part of my post where I suggested is might be the same sensor die as the 5D MkIII, but with a greater number of pixels failing to make the grade. These would then be averaged together as a single pixel. If you do that across a sensor you get very respectable performance but with a lower total MP count.

not possible because of the pixel pitch.

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Re: 6D Sensor... why?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 04:48:59 AM »