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Author Topic: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?  (Read 11862 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 08:02:00 PM »
Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?

What a pity.
6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
I am looking for an new FAST camera.

Canon does it not have by now
Did you expect a new 7D?  Did you expect a Nikon D400?  Maybe in 6 months or maybe never.  Canon just did something they haven't done before, they completely updated the 7D Firmware.  This is telling us not to expect a new body in the near future.
APS-C sensors do not play well at high ISO's, there is no new technology to magically change that.  Tiny improvements happen with lower noise amplifiers and better noise reduction, but don't expect any substantial improvements in ISO capability. 
The 6D goes to ISO 25600, thats as good as anything in that price range.

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 08:02:00 PM »

DB

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 08:05:19 PM »
With regard to timing - a new 7D2 announced in September 2013 and a new crop-sensor flagship body in March 2013 first, don't know if it will be called the 70D especially not if Canon also release their annual xxxD/xxxxD spring offerings around the same time i.e.  700D/1200D. I cannot see Canon launch a 70D and a 700D - the difference of just one numeral (zero) would be too confusing. Instead we could see a 60D Mark II  :o

Either way, I do not believe that the next variant of the 7D will be an APS-C camera. I believe that it will be an APS-H 27MP or 40MP sensor with dual DIGIC5+ chips, a fixed 3" 3:2 LCD, but with Wi-Fi & GPS onboard, usable 6400 ISO (possibly 12800 ISO for video purposes), very fast high speed shooting say 12 fps and it will have to have a new AF system, but could be very similar to the 45-point AF used on the 1DIV. Initial price circa $2,500

With the improvement in teleconverters and telephoto lenses (such as 300mm & 400mm @ f2.8 and the 500mm & 600mm @ f4) a reduction in the crop focal multiplier from 1.6x to 1.3x will not matter that much to wildlife and sports action shooters -> they'll still have extra reach + extra megapixels for additional cropping in post.

I think that this would round out (complete) the Canon EOS Digital Interchangeable Lens Camera line quite nicely.

meli

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 08:17:51 PM »
Canon made it clear some time ago when the announced the big firmware upfrade for the 7D that a 7D Mark II was not coming soon... if ever.  Nikon has also killed off the D400 with their D600.
Personally, I think a 7D Mark II is coming, but not this fall.

true, i do believe though that there is a place & a market for pro APS-Cs

As for wishlist, a full stop in noise & DR and clean 100, dual drive and some mini tweaks (damned spotlinked metering ffs!)

dr croubie

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2012, 08:20:51 PM »
Thank god they upgraded the 7D firmware.
Although, even without it, the 7D is still a fine camera.
And i'm glad it is, because there's nothing I can afford that's an upgrade (5D3 is a nice low-light event upgrade, 1D4 is a nice sports-upgrade, but they're both $3k. D600/D800 are also nice upgrades, but they'll cost a lot more than $3k to replace lenses).

And i doubt the 7D2 is going to be a 'groundbreaking' upgrade, probably not enough to justify any more than a $few hundred nett.
So my current 7D is going to have to last a long long time, probably at least another 3-4 years.


It reminds me of the first computer I bought, it had a Pentium 2 350MHz, 64MB of PC100 RAM, on a 440BX Chipset. I didn't know it at the time, but that chipset took every processor for years. That motherboard lasted me for 6 years, until it ended life as a Tualatin 1.4GHz overclocked to god-knows what, 1GB of PC133 RAM (one of the IDE controllers died, but it had on-board SCSI to tide me over).
I think my 7D is exactly in the same boat. I planned to buy the best that I could afford at the time, which was the 7D. I knew it would last a few years (it's been 2 already), but it's got at least that again before it goes on fleabay (or becomes 'backup').

Long live the 7D mk1.
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ScottyP

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 08:24:00 PM »

Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?

What a pity.
6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
I am looking for an new FAST camera.

Canon does it not have by now
Did you expect a new 7D?  Did you expect a Nikon D400?  Maybe in 6 months or maybe never.  Canon just did something they haven't done before, they completely updated the 7D Firmware.  This is telling us not to expect a new body in the near future.
APS-C sensors do not play well at high ISO's, there is no new technology to magically change that.  Tiny improvements happen with lower noise amplifiers and better noise reduction, but don't expect any substantial improvements in ISO capability. 
The 6D goes to ISO 25600, thats as good as anything in that price range.


The speedometer on our old 1970's station wagon went to 140 mph when I was a kid.  THe car wouldn't actually do that speed unless you drove it off a cliff, and the twisted smoking results would have looked about the same as the 6D will at 25600.   :D
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:26:00 PM by ScottyP »
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DB

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 08:29:55 PM »
Canon have already launched a very fast camera in 2012, the 1DX with 12 shots per second (or 14 with the mirror locked up).

Before Canon launch a 7D2, they have to discontinue the 5D2 before the end of the year (to ensure success of the 6D as the only viable option for xxD/xxxD videographers to upgrade to), then they have to prepare for the launch of the 700D/1200D 18MP crop-sensor cameras (likely to be announced in Feb 2013, available March-April). Next they will turn their attention to a 60D Mark II (some refer to as the 70D). Finally, they will then have to finalize the 7D2 before Photokina 2013

The 7D mark II will obviously be a fast camera (10-12 fps at a minimum) utilizing most likely dual-DIGIC5+ processors, new AF system (could be taken from 1D mk IV) if there is a new APS-H sensor, which in all likelihood will have more megapixels than any other DSLR in the current EOS lineup, my guess is 27MP, usable ISO of 6400 and dual memory card slots (at least one will remain CF)

Whatever Canon have already decided to do for Photokina 2013 (yes they plan about 1-2 years in advance, like most large scale volume manufacturers), they won't tell us now, but will probably leak (drip-feed) some info early summer 2013 once the new Rebels and a new xxD APS-C body have already been announced.

I'm afraid that all of us will have to wait at least another 9 months, before we begin to get accurate rumours or leaks as to what a new 7D Mark II will ultimately look like.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:31:31 PM by DB »

canon816

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 08:31:47 PM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 08:31:47 PM »

crasher8

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 08:41:50 PM »
I think the 7D FW update was a dead giveaway that there would not be a 7D update in the near future. Didn't you?

dtaylor

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 08:44:22 PM »
true, i do believe though that there is a place & a market for pro APS-Cs

I hope Canon does not forget this, and shame on Nikon if they have. Even if FF sensor fabrication dropped in price, APS-C sensors are very useful and capable teleconverters. If you need reach and you're focal length limited, you need APS-C.

dtaylor

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 08:49:49 PM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.

No, you'll just continue to get incremental improvements same as FF sensors. The "crop can't do high ISO" meme is old. Today's best crop bodies match yesterday's FF bodies. Tomorrow's crop sensors will match today's FF sensors. Given the same level of technology FF sensors will always collect more light, but that doesn't mean crop won't continue to improve.

SJTstudios

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 09:03:18 PM »
The thing is, they can't do anything to make the 7d better. It has 18 megapixels which they can't increase or nobody will by the 6d, and everything else is as good as its gonna get unless they want to screw all the other canon cameras on the market. The 7d is supposed to be an wildlife/sport enthusiast camera, they get a decent camera, and an aps-c sensor so they can get a better zoom on wildlife. If people want better, canon wants them to go for an expensive full frame camera and the big l glass. It's all marketing. This also means we won't see a 70d for a while either, since if they bump things up at all, it will be too close to the 7d.

brianleighty

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 10:20:43 PM »

Either way, I do not believe that the next variant of the 7D will be an APS-C camera. I believe that it will be an APS-H 27MP or 40MP sensor with dual DIGIC5+ chips, a fixed 3" 3:2 LCD, but with Wi-Fi & GPS onboard, usable 6400 ISO (possibly 12800 ISO for video purposes), very fast high speed shooting say 12 fps and it will have to have a new AF system, but could be very similar to the 45-point AF used on the 1DIV. Initial price circa $2,500

I'm pretty sure APS-H is dead. It would be silly to go from APS-C to APS-H since now all there crop sensor lenses don't work anymore. Going full frame makes more sense but it's now not hitting it's target market of those that want a top of the line APS-C camera for birds, sports or other categories where reach is important. With a 40MP sensor it's not going to be able to hit the frame rates of the current due to the massive amount of data. So I highly doubt they'll change from APS-C. The existing crop sensor has been around for quite some time. It makes sense to put that in the 7D II and then trickle it down to the lower bodies.
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pierceography

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 11:06:52 PM »
Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app).  I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable.  I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.

But I'm fairly happy with my 5D mark iii and the expanded AEB, which was a huge reason for wanting tethered shooting -- camera shake during HDR exposures and all.

As a slight aside, the only real feature I'm slightly jealous of the 6D having is wifi, since I see this as a possible route to truly controlling the camera wirelessly.  Nikon definitely got that one right... :-\
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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 11:06:52 PM »

nicku

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2012, 12:55:12 AM »
Canon made it clear some time ago when the announced the big firmware upfrade for the 7D that a 7D Mark II was not coming soon... if ever.  Nikon has also killed off the D400 with their D600.
Personally, I think a 7D Mark II is coming, but not this fall.

Yes, Nikon killed off the D400 with a good camera ( the D600). In Canon case 6D is not even close a 7D line killer.

nicku

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »
The thing is, they can't do anything to make the 7d better. It has 18 megapixels which they can't increase or nobody will by the 6d, and everything else is as good as its gonna get unless they want to screw all the other canon cameras on the market. The 7d is supposed to be an wildlife/sport enthusiast camera, they get a decent camera, and an aps-c sensor so they can get a better zoom on wildlife. If people want better, canon wants them to go for an expensive full frame camera and the big l glass. It's all marketing. This also means we won't see a 70d for a while either, since if they bump things up at all, it will be too close to the 7d.

Exactly marketing. Give to the people something that only you have ( in this case the APS-H sensor),and they will buy it regardless of the price.... because is unique.
And with this marketing strategy come the things we expect, like better IQ and high ISO noise.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 01:24:38 AM by nicku »

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »