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Author Topic: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?  (Read 11157 times)

al2

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2012, 01:37:00 AM »
Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app).  I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable.  I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.

But I'm fairly happy with my 5D mark iii and the expanded AEB, which was a huge reason for wanting tethered shooting -- camera shake during HDR exposures and all.

As a slight aside, the only real feature I'm slightly jealous of the 6D having is wifi, since I see this as a possible route to truly controlling the camera wirelessly.  Nikon definitely got that one right... :-\

The remote control with your phone is already available.  See "DSLR Controller" on the Google Play Store.  You have to use a USB cable, but it really works.  Works for all new Canon cameras and some older ones.

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2012, 01:37:00 AM »

daniela

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Re: NO 7D Mark II @ photokina????
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2012, 04:58:27 AM »
Does Canon introduce only the 6D? No 7D Mk2?

What a pity.
6D with only 11 AF filds and an slow sensor....
I am looking for an new FAST camera.

Canon does it not have by now


A slow sensor?  What does that mean?

4,5 vs 8 fps

daniela

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2012, 05:09:20 AM »
New firmware is ok. But my brother owns an new 5D Mark3. It is an great camera.
My personal 7D is a little bit tricky. Much noise >800ISO, AF is not always working well.
I like the 7D, but I want a better one.
Better Noise, maybe some AF-fields more, AF faster.
I don´t have the money to buy an 5D Mark3.

JohanCruyff

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2012, 05:46:59 AM »
So, trying to be realistic here: what features do you expect/hope to see in the 7D?

My list is short: Less noise at ISO 1600-6400; an even better autofocus; a little more weatherproofing; CF Card slot (don't care if they also include an SD, but I wants my CF); and that ability to control the camera through your smartphone using WiFi.

What makes your short list?

Everything on your list plus more Dynamic Range, and I'd be good!

So few upgrades on the current 7D?

I'm afraid the guys at dpreview will write again "this is not a WOW! camera".

Italian amateur. Gear: i) 5d Classic, 17-40 F/4 L, 24-105mm F/4 IS L, 100mm F/2.8 IS L, 70-200 F/4 IS L. & EOS M, 22 F/2, 18-55 + Mount Adapter, 55-250 F/4-5.6 IS STM
ii) Wife: Canon G12
iii) First Daughter: Canon 1100D, 18-55 IS iv) Son: Canon A1000IS v) Second Daughter: Nikon L21

Imagination_landB

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2012, 07:48:39 AM »
I think we all agree that better iso performance is THE thing that a new 7d would need. I have a 60d(same sensor) and it's not great after 800 iso...so good iso performance from 100 to 2500 is not much asked when we compare to the newer models? is it?
6D, Gripped 60D. 120-300 2.8 OS, 50 1.8, 8-16, 24-70 VC.

tomscott

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2012, 08:06:22 AM »
How about they address noise throughout the range!! It is useable up to 1600 atm but 100-400 is absolutely dreadful! I was shocked when I saw how bad 100ISO is compared to the previous generation.

Maybe I was expecting too much, but I dont know why people are happy with this cameras IQ and noise performance at all. The older cameras might not have the bells and whistles of the 7D but the IQ was better not so much on the 50D but certainly on the 40D. I say bring the MP down to 15-16 and sort it out. Appalling.

Sorry for my rant now, I didn't want a 7D, I wanted to wait a little longer for the 5D MKIII to drop in price in the UK. But my old 40D broke so I replaced it for the mean time. Apart from the AF, FPS and screen I dont see any benefit of this camera over the older generation. It handles great but it is pointless without the IQ and the fact every APC camera in Canons line up is using this sensor... wow.

Still don't understand why people rave about this camera. Or am I missing something!???
   
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liberace

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2012, 08:22:05 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2012, 08:22:05 AM »

Noink Fanb0i

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2012, 08:26:59 AM »
Won't be buying a crop DSLR anymore, the writing is on the wall for APS-C DSLRs and EF-S lenses. Next round of entry-level FF would prolly be around $1500 (6D should have been at this price point and it would have reduced the whining by 90%). APS-C sensors would be relegated to the MILC, Rebel and xxD line. Most probably one of the APS-C lines would even disappear.
T3 is the bobn2 of Canon fanb0is.

brianboru

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2012, 08:49:17 AM »
Personally, at the top of my wish list is the ability to control the camera with a phone (i.e. iOS or Android app).  I don't care about the built in hardware, but if Canon were to introduce a dongle that, at the very least, would allow phones to communicate either wirelessly or through a cable.  I know you can do this with a laptop, but I rarely carry mine when shooting (who wants to drag around an extra 7lbs?)... especially when an iPad/iPhone has most everything I need in the short term.

But I'm fairly happy with my 5D mark iii and the expanded AEB, which was a huge reason for wanting tethered shooting -- camera shake during HDR exposures and all.

As a slight aside, the only real feature I'm slightly jealous of the 6D having is wifi, since I see this as a possible route to truly controlling the camera wirelessly.  Nikon definitely got that one right... :-\


The remote control with your phone is already available.  See "DSLR Controller" on the Google Play Store.  You have to use a USB cable, but it really works.  Works for all new Canon cameras and some older ones.


I see that al2 beat me to mentioning "DSLR Controller".  I agree that it really works with my 7D and can even control my 40D within the 40D's Liveview limitations.

http://dslrcontroller.com/
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Bob Howland

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2012, 09:21:34 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.

However, the D800 does not do 8 or 10FPS.  A crop camera is the best/only way of optimizing the following combination of attributes (1) lower price, (2) higher frame rate and (3) smaller pixels (i.e., lots of "pixels per feather"). I currently own a 5D3 and 7D both of which were purchased in the last 6 months. (They replaced a 5D and 40D.) The 7D is used almost exclusively outdoors in comparatively good light with longer lenses  to photograph things that move rapidly and unexpectedly. The 5D3 is used for everything else.

Black berry

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2012, 09:45:01 AM »
Drop the MP's to about 16, Dramatically improve the noise, IQ and DR and upgrade the AF.
To me it's a no brainer!
BB.

liberace

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2012, 09:53:19 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.

However, the D800 does not do 8 or 10FPS.  A crop camera is the best/only way of optimizing the following combination of attributes (1) lower price, (2) higher frame rate and (3) smaller pixels (i.e., lots of "pixels per feather"). I currently own a 5D3 and 7D both of which were purchased in the last 6 months. (They replaced a 5D and 40D.) The 7D is used almost exclusively outdoors in comparatively good light with longer lenses  to photograph things that move rapidly and unexpectedly. The 5D3 is used for everything else.

I agree 100%. I also own a 5D3 and a 7D. I was just pointing out that it is possible to get more out of an APS-C sensor than the 7D gives, at least Sony and Nikon have figured it out. Here's hoping Canon will soon too.

canon816

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2012, 10:25:50 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.

Sure I can.  D800 is on par up through ISO 1600 but at that point it really starts to lag the 5DIII.  Compare ISO 3200 and 6400 between these 2 cameras and you will notice that the d800 is far noisier.  Not only is it noisier it is more difficult noise to clean up. 

The D800 noise has colorful red pixels and image resolution degrades dramatically as this noise moves in. 

The 5DIII has primarily white noise and retains resolution and detail as noise moves in.  This type of noise is very easy to clean up at a very small loss to IQ.

While you will see incremental noise improvement in crop sensors there has certainly not been a revolution.  Also, if you were reading through this thread you may have noticed that some folks were asking for ISO 6400 to look like ISO 400 on a t3i.   This just isn't going to happen with current sensor tech.

I'm not brand loyal here... the d800 is a big disappointment in regards to high iso noise, especially considering it is full frame.  There are too many pixels crammed onto that sensor. 


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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2012, 10:25:50 AM »

canon816

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2012, 10:30:32 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.

No, you'll just continue to get incremental improvements same as FF sensors. The "crop can't do high ISO" meme is old. Today's best crop bodies match yesterday's FF bodies. Tomorrow's crop sensors will match today's FF sensors. Given the same level of technology FF sensors will always collect more light, but that doesn't mean crop won't continue to improve.

I agree, they will continue to improve... but the key word here is incrementally.  I'm just pointing out that the "dreamers" here are looking for a revolution.... and aren't going to get one.  Not until the additional features that I mentioned play out and the average person starts to care more about IQ relative to ISO.  Remember, the bulk of canon's business is with average customers.... and this type of customer doesnt care as much about high iso capabilities as the prosumer and pro level.  At least not yet anyway...

Bob Howland

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2012, 10:52:12 AM »
Sadly, you aren't going to get a revolution in high ISO noise performance in a crop sensor for a very long time... if ever.  With current sensor technology there is a limit to how well a crop sensor can handle noise... and with consumers for this category demanding features in video, hdr, etc... there is even less hope for sensor improvement.

But keep dreaming... it never hurts to dream.

There has already been a revolution in crop sensor high ISO noise. It's called the D800. The pixel pitch of it's sensor is VERY close to that of the 7D.

4.88µm v 4.3µm - that's only 13.5% difference. For comparison the 5D Mark III has a pixel pitch of 6.5µm - 50% bigger.

You can't tell me that the D800 doesn't have low high ISO noise. It's very competitive with the 5DIII.

However, the D800 does not do 8 or 10FPS.  A crop camera is the best/only way of optimizing the following combination of attributes (1) lower price, (2) higher frame rate and (3) smaller pixels (i.e., lots of "pixels per feather"). I currently own a 5D3 and 7D both of which were purchased in the last 6 months. (They replaced a 5D and 40D.) The 7D is used almost exclusively outdoors in comparatively good light with longer lenses  to photograph things that move rapidly and unexpectedly. The 5D3 is used for everything else.

I agree 100%. I also own a 5D3 and a 7D. I was just pointing out that it is possible to get more out of an APS-C sensor than the 7D gives, at least Sony and Nikon have figured it out. Here's hoping Canon will soon too.

I guess I was arguing with a strawman. I have this uneasy feeling that, instead of selling us a better 7D for $2000-2500, they are going to try to sell a 47MP, 8FPS, $10,000 FF monstrosity based on a 1Dx.

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Re: Enough Full Frame Talk: Where are the 7D II Rumors?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2012, 10:52:12 AM »