July 23, 2014, 04:23:55 PM

Author Topic: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?  (Read 17901 times)

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2012, 11:34:11 PM »
We have all of these pros on here and NOBODY can figure out how to work around the 1/180s max sync speed??  Sighhhhhhh.

Or, if you're not a pro buying the 6D, then who really cares?
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2012, 11:34:11 PM »

Viggo

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 03:25:05 AM »
Open the aperture? Oh my...

Try to bring the background down and freeze small movements requires a higher sync. I use my wireless flash outside all the time and going to 1/500s or higher gets me so little power I can't tell if the flash fired. And I use two 580's at full power. If you want to have power and less dof ND-filters can help.

Let's hope Odin makes an Optimized flash sync like Pw's and better so I don't have to spend hours tuning them in software.
1dx, 24-70 L II, 50 Art, 200 f2.0 L

aj1575

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 06:09:03 AM »
Not photographers.  Maybe armchair spec readers.

 :)

Good point

Otara

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2012, 06:36:43 AM »
For underwater photographers lower X-sync is often a pain, eg for sunball shots where you're lighting a foreground subject too.  The aperture is often already fairly high, so going even higher isnt the preferred solution, and high speed sync isnt an option either.

A small segment of photography and one that probably isnt too interested in the 6D anyhow - the cost of going DSLR is enough that stopping there probably isnt worth it if full frame is whats wanted, and theres the 5D anyhow.   But if the sensor is a reasonable jump over the 5D II, there will be a few sad faces, self included.

pwp

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2012, 07:21:59 AM »
Not photographers.  Maybe armchair spec readers.

Yes it's been a motivator for the armchair spec readers. But it depends how you work. For plenty of photographers shooting style, any loss of sync speed is noticed and missed, even the drop from 300th to 250th from the 1D4 to the 1DX. In reality the 5D3 sync speed of 200th is barely different from 180th, but the incremental losses require modified technique and reduced flexibility.

Remember how useful the 500th sync on the original 1D was? Brilliant!

-PW

Viggo

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2012, 08:00:58 AM »
Here's an example:

He's not moving very fast at all and for "creative effect" this COULD be tolerated, but to me this image is ruined by that arm moving. I can't remember any situation I had that kind of blur on the 1d 4 with flash.

1dx, 24-70 L II, 50 Art, 200 f2.0 L

kalmiya

  • Guest
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2012, 08:07:15 AM »
af option 3: af system at least 7d level
1/200s x-sync

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2012, 08:07:15 AM »

risc32

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2012, 09:19:49 AM »
1/180 sucks and so does 1/200th. 1/250 should be the bare minimum but it really sucks also. I have a good understanding of the importance of all this, but a vague understanding as to why we don't have 1/500th or better synch speeds. Some of the early model DSLR's got there, and some of the Nikon's can do even better(the older ones). i have a leaf shutter 6x9 rangefinder that will go to 1/500th, it's from the 80's and probably mostly designed in the 70's. It doesn't even take batteries. why on earth are we not doing better now? YOu might say, yeah, but your rangefinder only goes as fast as 1/500, synch or not. well, i don't care. I don't want to hear it can't be done, do it. either with mechanics, electronics or both.  I say we officially end the MP race and heat up the synch speed race!

  BTW- this little rant wasn't brought on with the 6d, it's been building for a few years.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13518
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2012, 11:00:56 AM »
Some of the early model DSLR's got there, and some of the Nikon's can do even better(the older ones).

Many of those were not FF.  With a FF sensor, the curtains have further to traverse.

Some of the early model DSLR's got there, and some of the Nikon's can do even better(the older ones). i have a leaf shutter 6x9 rangefinder that will go to 1/500th, it's from the 80's and probably mostly designed in the 70's. It doesn't even take batteries. why on earth are we not doing better now?

Leaf shutter ≠ focal plane shutter.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »

Open the aperture? Oh my...

yeah... well speaking about "experts"   ::)

it looks like 70% don´t even know WHAT the problem is.... but nevertheless they write in this thread.


Quote from: bdunbar79
Right, so at 1/500, open the aperture more.  You'll do okay 

 ::)

So you can't do it then.  Just forget it and never set your shutter above 1/180s if you're using a flash.  Good lord. (Rubbing eyes and pulling hair out..........)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:06:56 AM by bdunbar79 »
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2012, 11:11:15 AM »


You're not missing anything.  If you know what in the hell you're doing, you can really do wonders with high flash sync modes.  I agree with you, learn some photography to overcome the base sync speed.  I typically just open my aperture a stop to let in more light, then flash away at 1/5000 even.  It's not hard.

Quote from: neuroanatomist
The 'solution' is high speed sync (HSS), which allows you to go faster than the X-sync speed. The penalty is a big reduction in flash power.


for high speed sync you first need a flash that can do it.
now tell me you "experts" how many flashes (and keep in mind there are other flashes then small speedlights) can do HSS with canon cameras?

You'll be ok.
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

Gothmoth

  • Guest
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2012, 11:12:46 AM »
So you can't do it then.  Just forget it and never set your shutter above 1/180s if you're using a flash.  Good lord. (Rubbing eyes and pulling hair out..........)

don´t troll!!

i have yet to read something usefull from you in this thread...... if you don´t care then don´t write in this thread.

others do care and there IS a problem with always slower sync speeds.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:14:48 AM by Gothmoth »

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2012, 11:37:53 AM »
So say if you really want to use the fill flash outdoors, and you narrow the aperture to lower the shutter speed required, is the problem then because the depth of field won't be optimized?  Sorry for my smart*ss earlier posts.  So say I'm using fill flash, at f/3.2, and shutter required is 1/800, is the problem here that you don't want to narrow the aperture because of depth of field issues, suppose at a wedding event?  I'm just trying to understand the difference between 1/180s and 1/250s sync speeds.  Again sorry, did not mean to be so offensive.

Typically outdoors if I'm doing flash I'll set my shutter to the sync speed, in this case 1/250s.  If I had to set it at 1/180s is there no way to adjust aperture and/or ISO to accomodate this? 
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2012, 11:37:53 AM »

Shamus1

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2012, 12:04:12 PM »
One more opinion.... I shoot pro dance, and have a 1DMkIV, 1DMkIII, 5DMkIII, 5DmkII & 7D ...  My flashes are multiple 580EX & 580EXII, and recently three 600EX-RT's.   I have multiple  PW TT5's and know about HSS.  My big gripe on the 5D's is the 1/200 x-sync :).   I have read all of the above....  Most of the time I only use stage lighting is x-sync is not a factor.  There are times that I have to shoot a large group of dancers under poor or very low/ uneven light (hence DOF and aperture setting are critical) and often they are quickly moving and require a 1/200 to 1/250 minimum shutter speed. 

Frequently I have to use high iso and the 5DMkIII is amazing.  I looked at the 6D as a backup for those situations.

On the rare occasion that flash is used, HHS can be problematic with insufficient power if any distance is involved.  As I am usually shooting in a theater situation, using addition flash units are not usually possible.  Small increases in shutter speed make a big difference.  The difference in a spin if the hand is sharp or blurred. (sometimes the blur is ok)

I realize that the 6D's 1/180 shutter is probable due to physical limitations of a less than premium shutter unit (100,000 life, max 1/4000...) and will not affect most users.   The reduction from 1/200 to 1/180 is small but if you compare 1/180 to 1/250, it makes a difference.

I would have expected 1/200 and a 150,000 life from a $2K FF camera.

If I decide to get one, would probably be used as a personal travel cam, which I think is one of the targeted uses.  Wi-Fi without Eye-Fi is nice along with a faster SD reader.

Canon-F1

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2012, 12:08:40 PM »
So say if you really want to use the fill flash outdoors

yes... many photographer want that. it´s not as if that is a rare occasion. :)

Quote
and you narrow the aperture to lower the shutter speed required, is the problem then because the depth of field won't be optimized? 

part of the problem, yes.
movement, motion blur is another.

1/180s  vs. 1/200s does not seem much of a difference.
but if you operate at the edge already with 1/200... it is.


Quote
I'm just trying to understand the difference between 1/180s and 1/250s sync speeds.


you have less leverage in daylight balancing.

ISO effects both daylight and flash.
shutterspeed does not effect the flash power.
there is not much you can do trying to overpower the ambient light fiddling with ISO values.

so you either close the apperture (steals flash power, more DOF) or you use a faster shutterspeed.

i agree that it does not bother all users, but it sure is a concern for serious strobists.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 12:17:34 PM by Canon-F1 »
6D, 5D MK2, 7D, 550D... a lot of Glass.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2012, 12:08:40 PM »