Loving Canon right now.

[aj1575]

I will contribute to that wake up call. Once I "upgrade" from my current 7D to FF and need to sell my EF-S glass anyway 10-22, 17-55, 60 Macro I will also sell my EF glass 40/2.8, 50/1.4, 100/2.0, 70-200/2.8 II and take my money elsewhere, if all Canon has to offer is overpriced and underspecced cr*p.

Then good luck and enjoy the grass that is greener on the other side...

The 6D at 2100$, it's still a lot of money, but it is the same as a similiar speced D600. (D600 has more AF-Points, and bigger zone metering, built in flash, dual card slot, while the 6D has WiFi and GPS). But you can be sure, that that price will drop, like the one of the 5D III is starting to do. Early adopters pay extra. As long as there are people around who think they need the newest eqiupment the moment it is announced, so long companies will be able to charge them extra. The 6D will go as low as 1600$ within 2 years, which is a fair price for such a camera.

And no, Canon has not really a problem with their sensors, at least not among people who take pictures, instead of reading dxomark, and comparing the numbers as if they were Horsepower and 1/4mile times.
Shoot at ISO 100 and the D800 will give you the possibility to take details out of underexposed parts because of its high dynamic range, but shoot in low light, and the 5D III will give pictures with much less noise. You decide what you prefer, and what your needs are.

True, Canon lost its advantage it had over Nikon in the sensor department. And Sony makes great sensors (not cameras, so far). But the real looser in this game won't be Canon, it will be Nikon. Sony uses Nikon to help them finance their chip production and development, because alone Sony would be nowhere near Canon volume. But if Sony market share grows, they will not need Nikon any longer...

[nicku]

I will contribute to that wake up call. Once I "upgrade" from my current 7D to FF and need to sell my EF-S glass anyway 10-22, 17-55, 60 Macro I will also sell my EF glass 40/2.8, 50/1.4, 100/2.0, 70-200/2.8 II and take my money elsewhere, if all Canon has to offer is overpriced and underspecced cr*p.

Then good luck and enjoy the grass that is greener on the other side...

The 6D at 2100$, it's still a lot of money, but it is the same as a similiar speced D600. (D600 has more AF-Points, and bigger zone metering, built in flash, dual card slot, while the 6D has WiFi and GPS). But you can be sure, that that price will drop, like the one of the 5D III is starting to do. Early adopters pay extra. As long as there are people around who think they need the newest eqiupment the moment it is announced, so long companies will be able to charge them extra. The 6D will go as low as 1600$ within 2 years, which is a fair price for such a camera.

And no, Canon has not really a problem with their sensors, at least not among people who take pictures, instead of reading dxomark, and comparing the numbers as if they were Horsepower and 1/4mile times.
Shoot at ISO 100 and the D800 will give you the possibility to take details out of underexposed parts because of its high dynamic range, but shoot in low light, and the 5D III will give pictures with much less noise. You decide what you prefer, and what your needs are.

True, Canon lost its advantage it had over Nikon in the sensor department. And Sony makes great sensors (not cameras, so far). But the real looser in this game won't be Canon, it will be Nikon. Sony uses Nikon to help them finance their chip production and development, because alone Sony would be nowhere near Canon volume. But if Sony market share grows, they will not need Nikon any longer...

Little off topic:

Even if Sony will achieve the same build quality, speed, processors as Nikon they will not drop them. The reason is very simple : they must produce sensors for their own cameras... right... So... why not selling a couple thousands/ tens of thousands  more sensors. all companies are interested in profit not market share or loyalty to their costumers.

Who knows what the collaboration agreement between Sony and Nikon says... maybe Nikon will help Sony with technology to produce very good cameras in exchange of world leading FF sensors....

[JohanCruyff]

So, to me, Canon isn't offering as good or as exciting of products as Nikon is at this point..... add to this a $2300 new 24-70(the lens I want the most) and i'm overall unhappy with my choices in Canon. I'm buying a D600 and 24-70 2.8 for around 3800 dollars, instead of a 5DIII(I wouldn't consider the 6D) and 24-70 II for $5200.

Your comparison does not convince me.
5200$ is (a lot) more than 3800$, but I expect that Canon's 24-70 outperforms Nikon's one (and I think that, in many aspects, Canon's 5D3 is better than Nikon's D600).

[FunPhotons]

What dr croubie said so well in the first reply.

I work for similar kind of company (specialized hardware with custom firmware) in a similar position (old company, established leader). While I'm stuck with Canon because I can't stand Nikon ergonomics and design, I see that they've so well established themselves that they're not really trying anymore. Changes will continue to be incremental, innovation will be low, and they'll be late on releases. What they won't be is sloppy, the released products will perform as expected. This is what happens to these old, established companies. They - really the people working for them - want a nice comfortable job with no surprises, so they'll delay a release instead of releasing something that isn't wrapped up. Basically they don't want any nasty surprises.

Photokina was a non event.

PS. You can spot companies in this position by how much they massage specs on the product line. Because they can't get their act together enough to really innovate, they'll play pricing games, and artfully leave features out of devices in the product line. A young, innovative company will just churn out new, innovative stuff. See a pattern here?

[RuneL]

Oh no. Car analogies...

VW is the rebel of cars and the BMW is the 1D X?

No, just no. A 320D is a piece of S____ compared to say a Golf R: The BMW is slower, less grippy, less fun, not much more practical, worse interior, worse gearbox. The Golf R is a piece of S____ compared to the Renault Mégane RS 265 CUP, the Renualt is a race car, properly set up for track, awesome feeling with the road, awesome sounds, you feel connected to the drive, not disconnected as in the VW Golf R that's a lot more expensive too. And so on.

Car analogies fail, maybe compare the lineup from BMW or something, I don't know, but the other one just doesn't work.

[Cannon Man]

Does anyone know if the folks at nikon rumors hate nikon so much as people hate canon here?
For what i've seen and heard they dont. We should grow up.

Who here has thought about talking to their mothers about all the hate you have about canon? I'm sure she could help somehow. (ps. I'm not trying to troll anyone, just saying)

[JohanCruyff]

Does anyone know if the folks at nikon rumors hate nikon so much as people hate canon here?
For what i've seen and heard they dont.

+1

If we all were Nikonians, every single day we would wake up and cry "Oh, no! Another night passed, and no (sharp) Nikkor 70-200 F/4 VR has been announced!" and then protest on all the forums on the web.

[UrbanImages]

As far as the 6D is concerned, people need to realize that it is not targeted towards the professionals/serious amateurs, but rather those who are looking to break into FF. I for one wouldn't buy it, but I knew and expected this prior to official announcement. I also wouldn't buy a 1Dx, doesn't fit into my needs. For what I shoot, my 5D's (both I and II) and my 7D fit my needs. I will eventually move up to 5D III by the end of the year. I do believe that there is a place for the 6D, it's a direct competitor to the D600 and is targeted as such. I believe that Canon has overstuffed their DSLR's with things such as video, GPS and the like. I learned to shoot on film, I started with a Rebel nearly 20 yrs. ago. I shoot my digitals as I did that camera. Canon surely has a sizable edge in glass. That is the biggest complaint I have found with Nikon shooters, their glass isn't even in the ballpark to Canon. One guy I know has a complete Sigma lineup for glass because he hates Nikon glass. In the end ability, creativity and knowledge of equipment make the photographer. The bodies and glass are just tools to that end. Canon must know what the market demand is, I doubt they would release a camera, putting all that money into R&D and production if they just wanted to throw a camera out there for the sake of it. Only time will tell, when the prototypes and reviews come out, judge then.

[Viggo]

Let me start by saying I love my canon camera.  For me the frustration is not in the speed of upgrades, it's the out of whack practice of lower end cameras getting features first.

I think the 6D is what was needed, a more affordable entry level FF. What I'm pi$$ed that it comes with built in features (wifi control via smart phone & built in GPS) that are thing that I get to pay +$400 for on my Mrk III, or that are not available.  These were features that I (and many others) wanted 4 years ago, and I kind of expected to be standard at this point in time on DSLRs.  Now it appears I could have saved a lot of money going with this lower end camera to get all the features I wanted (FF, Improved focus, improved ISO, Camera and Movie Mode, Around 20mp, Built in GPS, WiFi control via smart phone).

As I recall, when the 7D came out, it ended up having a few features that the 5D Mrk II did not (but eventually did get).  This is almost the same thing, but these features can't be added in firmware, they have to be purchased for a premium. It's like design and marketing aren't thinking when they come up with features for the users. More like how can we get the most money out of our users wallets?  When it's time for me to get a new camera body in a few years, if Canon is still pulling the same stupid maneuvers, I'll be jump ship.

I'm with you on that one, I was seriously upset when the 7d got the spot-af when the 1d4 didn't get it. And also now that an entrylevel gets interchangeable focusing screens and 5d3 not. Along. With the things you mentioned. I think that the 1d X should have everything all other cameras in the next two year has.

[dstppy]

Does anyone know if the folks at nikon rumors hate nikon so much as people hate canon here?
For what i've seen and heard they dont. We should grow up.

Who here has thought about talking to their mothers about all the hate you have about canon? I'm sure she could help somehow. (ps. I'm not trying to troll anyone, just saying)

You can post things like this until you're blue in the face . . . but in the end, you just have to wait out the latest surge.  They tried to rile everyone up at the 5DmkIII launch but no one really bit (except over price).  Once the D600 started getting rumors, they went for another round and we really fell for it.

[AmbientLight]

It might be good for someone to start a Canon-hate site, so that in this forum we can get back to discussing photography and away from all those silly troll posts.

[HarryWintergreen]

maybe because we are spoilt 

[robbinzo]

I'm an amateur photographer. I have no pretensions about my ability. I am still happy shooting with my 550D. The IQ is fine for my purposes but the AF isn't great.
I'm thinking about upgrading to FF but I will not upgrade to something that has only a slightly better AF system for £1300 more than my current camera. We'll see how good the 6D's AF system is but it doesn't look great.
I don't hate Canon but I feel this "entry level" FF 6D offering is a very poor effort.
I do wonder why Canon don't release a stills only FF camera. It wouldn't directly compete with the 5D mark III because it would not have video function and all the bells and whistles.
Now that would be innovative - build a stills camera.

[AmbientLight]

The wish for stills cameras has been posted here quite often, but I don't think that Canon can be persuaded to go back on a feature, which has been such a match-winner for them. Just look at all those 5D Mark II sales, when Nikon had nothing to compete with it. Canon are quite aware now that a good sensor plus a mediocre autofocus system are a match-winning combination. Manual focus is not such a problem. You can still create stunning photos using manual focus. If you want brilliant autofocus capabilities Canon have that as well, but for a different budget. Just think of the 5D Mark III or the 1D X.

[Meh]

It might be good for someone to start a Canon-hate site, so that in this forum we can get back to discussing photography and away from all those silly troll posts.

Some people want to discuss these things.  If you don't, then it doesn't concern you so don't read or respond in these threads.