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Author Topic: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon  (Read 84065 times)

jrista

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #195 on: October 13, 2012, 12:04:30 PM »

And the winner is.........
                           

                           Nikon           Canon       Sony     Olympus
Sensor  :                0                   0              1             0
Lens      :               0                   1              0             0
Body      :               0                   1              0             0
Flash     :                1                   0              0             0
Metering:                1                  1               0             0
Fan        :                0                  0               0             1 (Rabid Fans)
Total     :                 2                  3               1             1


And the Winner is......

I would actually rate the cameras (sensor included, so no Sony here) as such, myself:


NikonCanon*
Sensor:  10
Lens:  01
Body:  01
Flash:  11(tie, Canon's just got a LOT better, but Nikon's was always good)
Metering:  1.51(Generally a tie, but Nikon gets an extra half point because ALL of their cameras have good meetering)
Fans:  00(I think we fans are all a little pathetic when you get right down to it. ;P)
Total:  3.54
 

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #195 on: October 13, 2012, 12:04:30 PM »

Ivar

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #196 on: October 13, 2012, 01:57:05 PM »
Makes absolutely sense!


I would actually rate the cameras (sensor included, so no Sony here) as such, myself:


NikonCanon*
Sensor:  10
Lens:  01
Body:  01
Flash:  11(tie, Canon's just got a LOT better, but Nikon's was always good)
Metering:  1.51(Generally a tie, but Nikon gets an extra half point because ALL of their cameras have good meetering)
Fans:  00(I think we fans are all a little pathetic when you get right down to it. ;P)
Total:  3.54


Fishnose

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2012, 06:16:56 PM »
Far better to use a 10 scale. And we can drop the 'fan' thing.
I'm only considering the top end stuff - FF plus 7D and D7000.
If we we to add lower-end DSLRs, the D3200 leapfrogs everything Canon does in APS-C, except for the 'Body' category. So let's leave them out of it.
NikonCanon
Sensor:  97Not much to discuss here
Lens:  89Canon make fantastic lenses, but so do Nikon
Body:  89To a large extent this is a matter of taste, but the Canon grips are slightly better
Flash:  78Canon's new radio control beats Nikon
Metering:  98Nikon metering is bloody good
AF:  98Nikon beats Canon, with the exception of the 1Dx
Total:  5049

And I think that however you look at it, both make bloody fantastic cameras.

Razor2012

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #198 on: October 13, 2012, 06:24:32 PM »
I would have to disagree with AF here, Canon beats Nikon.
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Razor2012

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #199 on: October 13, 2012, 06:44:01 PM »
Even the 5DIII beats the D800 when it comes to AF.
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Tcapp

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #200 on: October 13, 2012, 08:55:56 PM »
I would have to disagree with AF here, Canon beats Nikon.

I think AF is the biggest advantage canon has right now. That and lenses of course.
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jrista

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #201 on: October 13, 2012, 08:57:18 PM »
I would disagree with AF currently being in favor of Nikon in general. In my playing around with Nikon DSLR bodies at the local camera place, I've noticed Nikon AF systems have very low frame spread. Particularly on the full-frame bodies. Most of their latest AF systems seem to be reticular, but the points are so tightly clustered around the center of the frame and so tightly spaced, I wonder if they are as broadly flexible as Canon AF systems.

In most, if not all (6D AF system yet to be seen, although I suspect it is the same) current Canon DSLR's, they support fairly broad AF point spread in a highly configurable setup, including the 7D, 5D III and 1D X (and even the 1D IV in a form). The new Canon 61pt AF system, used in both the 1D X and 5D III, has more total points as well as more cross-type points than any other AF system yet on the market. All of Canon's AF systems support a variety of selectable point modes, including Spot AF, Single Point AF, Expansion AF, and Zone AF (the 1D IV supports some of those, in a more tedious fashion with custom functions). This is in addition to the ubiquitous Full AF mode where all points are automatically selected. Canon AF precision is also improved for wide lenses, such as f/4 and f/2.8 aperture when used...which can be a huge bonus for f/4 L II supertelephoto or f/2.8 L II telephoto lens users. Canon was also the first to provide orientation-linked AF points.

I think some of these features found their way into the improved 51pt AF system used in the D4 and D800, however most of Nikon's AF systems only support dynamic AF areas around the center point (if they support a dynamic AF area at all). However, to my knowledge, Nikon AF points only have two levels of sensitivity...normal sensitivity for f/5.6 and lower sensitivity for f/8...so no bonus performance or precision to f/4 and f/2.8 telephoto lens users. I don't think there is any question that previously, when Nikon first introduced their 51 and 39 point AF systems in the previous generation of Cameras, they were generally better than Canon's (particularly the 1D III's botched AF system).

However at the current time, I think Canon definitely holds the AF crown...assuming were talking about who has the best of the latest and greatest technology (which is what I assumed before.)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 08:59:33 PM by jrista »

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #201 on: October 13, 2012, 08:57:18 PM »

skitron

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #202 on: October 14, 2012, 05:53:08 PM »
1dx to the left and d800 to the right, now I have lifted the shadows even more, 1dx S/N looks like 5dmk3 with pattern noise and loss of details

What soft did you use to lift the shadows?
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Razor2012

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2012, 11:42:54 AM »
I would have to disagree with AF here, Canon beats Nikon.

I think AF is the biggest advantage canon has right now. That and lenses of course.

I never discuss AF , It should take a month to evaluate, but it would be interesting to know what you assumptions  are based  on when it comes to that  Canon would have a better AF than Nikon.

When the D800 first came out I played with it a while and wasn't that impressed with the AF.  There are reviews that also state the 5DIII has a better AF system (just look at the 1DX).
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RLPhoto

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2012, 06:08:02 PM »
I would have to disagree with AF here, Canon beats Nikon.

I think AF is the biggest advantage canon has right now. That and lenses of course.

I never discuss AF , It should take a month to evaluate, but it would be interesting to know what you assumptions  are based  on when it comes to that  Canon would have a better AF than Nikon.

When the D800 first came out I played with it a while and wasn't that impressed with the AF.  There are reviews that also state the 5DIII has a better AF system (just look at the 1DX).

show me please. who has done a complete AF test? The AF is not the same  in 5dmk3 and 1dx, 1dx has more sophisticated  computing capacity
and I am sorry if some of you think  I am offending you (Im tired of rabid people whatever they are Nikon or Canon people)
I enjoy discussing facts and regardless of  which brand.  I use Leica, Nikon and Canon 24x36mm cameras in my work

Warning: Entering middle earth. Don't end up like this discussion.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9822.msg177361#msg177361

RLPhoto

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #205 on: October 15, 2012, 06:17:09 PM »
If we are discussing facts , please Meet me with the facts, I am happy to listen to you

Nikon and Canon have two different visions of how an AF system should be and  function, and with what parameters. There are differences in response, starting up , stopping down and loops to hit the target in different  scenes. Canon have  chosen  for example  up to f-5, 6, Nikon to F-8.
It would take a very long time to test out which of the systems is generally best, it is probably not doable.

Canon 61 Point AF system - works @ F/5.6

61 points total
41 Cross type Points
5 Double-Crosstype point which currently no manuafauter makes.

Can work @ F/8 With Kenko Extenders. Not limited by hardware but software.

Nikon 51 Point 3500 Series AF - works @ F/8

51 points total
15 Crosstype points
0 Double crosstype points

Is that factual enough for you? Teh Canon is clearly superior on paper, can you prove that the nikon is superior in use? that is the question.  8)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 06:18:49 PM by RLPhoto »

RLPhoto

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #206 on: October 15, 2012, 06:29:12 PM »

Canon is clearly superior on paper, can you prove that the nikon is superior in use? that is the question.

exact , so it is or vice versa

Since canon's system is better on paper, and you cannot prove the nikon is better in use. The obvious conclusion is

The Canon AF is better.

bdunbar79

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2012, 06:50:46 PM »

Canon is clearly superior on paper, can you prove that the nikon is superior in use? that is the question.

exact , so it is or vice versa

Since canon's system is better on paper, and you cannot prove the nikon is better in use. The obvious conclusion is

The Canon AF is better.

You use the same logic as Pentax did with a 22bit ADC some years ago, more is better
I say ,   when a proper test is  done we  can discusse  the AF issue, or wait  a year when all sports photographers have seen their keepers from different events, it was not so difficult to see the differences between the 1dmk3 and D3 regarding keepers  and that was the reasons why 1000 of sports photographer went over to Nikon from 1dmk3

I cannot comment on many sports photographers.  But I shoot with two D4 users and I have a much higher hit rate with my 1DX than they do at night sports.  It could be that I'm just that good, but I highly doubt that's the case :).  At any rate, both of them wish they had my 1DX.  I can also shoot at ISO 25,600 and print 8 x 10's with general NR and they cannot get those photos.  Keep in mind that this is just a test among 3 people.
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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2012, 06:50:46 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #208 on: October 15, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »
I am NOT disagreeing with dynamic range.  That is true, regarding what you say about DR.  I was on another point about 1DX vs. D4 only, in that I am able to distribute player photos in those extreme situations and they are not.  Bottom line is I got them, and they didn't, regardless of DR per se.  Maybe it is simply a noise argument and/or low light AF argument.
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RLPhoto

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #209 on: October 15, 2012, 07:38:43 PM »

Canon is clearly superior on paper, can you prove that the nikon is superior in use? that is the question.

exact , so it is or vice versa

Since canon's system is better on paper, and you cannot prove the nikon is better in use. The obvious conclusion is

The Canon AF is better.

You use the same logic as Pentax did with a 22bit ADC some years ago, more is better
I say ,   when a proper test is  done we  can discusse  the AF issue, or wait  a year when all sports photographers have seen their keepers from different events, it was not so difficult to see the differences between the 1dmk3 and D3 regarding keepers  and that was one of the reasons why 1000 of sports photographer went over to Nikon from 1dmk3

I never said quote "more is better" infact, you did.

You still have not provided any evidence proving the Nikon system superior.

You fail on your sports argument because canon gained all the sports togs on the 90's due again, ironically, to canons better AF performance.

You fail fanboy.

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #209 on: October 15, 2012, 07:38:43 PM »