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Author Topic: 7D focusing question??  (Read 38679 times)

awinphoto

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2011, 10:32:48 AM »
This topic seems to be, along with the "wait or bite" 7DII question, the most frequent topic/problem regarding the 7d.  Not trying to generalize any here, but I get the impression that most OOF questions come from users who have graduated from Rebel models to the 7d.  These cameras are completely different beasts with the 7D being "the" beast.  I used the 50d for quite a while and got very frustrated with the 9 point system.  Before the 50d, I shot manual focus film cameras with no IS.  The 7d is not an automatic point and shoot camera.  As a matter of fact, I think it's a pretty poor PS camera.  It's also not a great center focus camera IMHO.  The focusing system in the 7d is amazing and once mastered, images are very sharp.  I needed to MA my 24-105 by -1.  I've never had an OOF shot and the camera is very consistent.  I move the focus point where I want it to be for every shot I take.  I've disabled zone and auto 19 pt focusing.  If the OP has not read and re-read the manual completely and understood and practiced using the camera, then this camera will give you soft images all the time.  Hopefully, the OP's problem with the camera can be resolved - best of luck.

+1  It has one heck of a learning curve, especially moving up from the XXD series or rebels, however, once mastered, it can be a workhorse of a camera...
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2011, 10:32:48 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2011, 10:41:21 AM »
I shoot photos of my daughters doing cheerlaeding which has to be the worst sport to have to take pictures at due to bad lighting and quick speeds needed and also not allowed to use a flash at all. ...My 70-200 2.8 is usually wide open at 2.8 and the ISO I try to keep low but alot of times 2000 to 6400 if needed for exposure. I have it set to center point auto focus, AI servo, and low speed continous shooting. I haven't tried changing any other settings down in the menu due to not really knowing what they do. Is there some other main settings that would really help with taking pictures such harsh places to take pictures.

One thing that would help would be a faster lens.  The 135mm f/2L is often recommended for low-light sports shooting, if 100mm would work there's also the much less expensive 100mm f/2. 

Just remember that with faster lenses (to compensate for low light, focus will be razor thin and focus will be even more critical so the focus system will be even more important to figure out.  If you dont fully master the focus system, with a faster lens you may find even more OOF shots.  That being said, the AF would be aided with more light to the AF sensor, however you still need to master focusing...

One suggestions for mastering focus, or at least worked for me, even if you dont like birds, bird photography.  Go to a lake or park, birds are constantly moving and wont stay still, if you're still and on a bench, sometimes they will come close to you... You will know if you lock focus on the eyes by looking at the feathers... If sharp, the feathers around the eyes will be razor sharp.  If not, you should be able to see on the bird where the feathers are sharp and where they aren't and if you see a pattern of the focus being behind the eyes or in front, then it's a MA issue... If it's occasionally off, then it could be that you need to work on your reflexes... Also remember, at times, even though you have a 70-200 f2.8, sometimes, in some situations, 1/500 may not be fast enough, especially for motion blur.  That will be fast enough for camera shake, but NOT motion blur in some situations.  Sometimes 2.8 may not be fast enough for the situation you are shooting... That's a situation of learning your equipment and capabilities and knowing if you need to plunk more money on faster gear. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2011, 11:13:17 AM »
So excited top of the range 7D> The strap alone is enough to make ones head turn.      Being new to DSLR What can go wrong.  The results I got were so disappointing I asked my self   Is the image this bad because its digital
  When I shot Film the image was so sharp it would cut my eye.  The lovely (I thought ) composed tripod picture looked so fuzzy a fly would not land on it .  I did not like to blame the equipment (shucks the best that could be bought) so I believed. and anyway if my staff blamed their tools, their quality or ability would have been debatable.
I was happy to accept, may be the Sigma 150_500 ,canon 15 _85 canon70_300( I was told these are not Pro lenses.)    BUT Canon 70_200 2.8 is 11 USM I believe Canon flagship not to forget the 100  2.8 Macro L.             I shoot in raw (some one said that is the way to go ) I also heard that raw is not sharp it needs finishing.       Well when I open this 23odd meg file  BaaBaBAAAA  with a fanfare and music the apple opens the very colorful blurry image        .When I press the sharpen key.  Oh My.........the computer shuts down It tells me please  that it has been used up     I have sent the body and 15-85 in for repair or new firmware that is how I found your contact.  It looks like this is a problem with all 7d . Has the Eos1D Mk1v got the same handicap?  I don't want to be disappointed again .If the camera did what the brochures ? This 7D will always have a place in my heart even if it is in a display cab-net
Very sad
paddy

awinphoto

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2011, 11:26:25 AM »
So excited top of the range 7D> The strap alone is enough to make ones head turn.      Being new to DSLR What can go wrong.  The results I got were so disappointing I asked my self   Is the image this bad because its digital
  When I shot Film the image was so sharp it would cut my eye.  The lovely (I thought ) composed tripod picture looked so fuzzy a fly would not land on it .  I did not like to blame the equipment (shucks the best that could be bought) so I believed. and anyway if my staff blamed their tools, their quality or ability would have been debatable.
I was happy to accept, may be the Sigma 150_500 ,canon 15 _85 canon70_300( I was told these are not Pro lenses.)    BUT Canon 70_200 2.8 is 11 USM I believe Canon flagship not to forget the 100  2.8 Macro L.             I shoot in raw (some one said that is the way to go ) I also heard that raw is not sharp it needs finishing.       Well when I open this 23odd meg file  BaaBaBAAAA  with a fanfare and music the apple opens the very colorful blurry image        .When I press the sharpen key.  Oh My.........the computer shuts down It tells me please  that it has been used up     I have sent the body and 15-85 in for repair or new firmware that is how I found your contact.  It looks like this is a problem with all 7d . Has the Eos1D Mk1v got the same handicap?  I don't want to be disappointed again .If the camera did what the brochures ? This 7D will always have a place in my heart even if it is in a display cab-net
Very sad
paddy

Here we go again.... =)  Anywho... are you shooting on full zone AF?  How much have you played with this camera?  Do you use single spot or expanded AF?  I think the 100 macro and 70-200 would have a far greater sharpness and keeper rate than the 15-85, however there are sooo many variables and issues, it is something where we would have to know more about the situation to diagnose what is going on... The AF system is a beast but to get the most out of it, you need to learn it more.  Feel free to post more specifics... This camera, for the density of the sensor, is getting greater than films density at similar crops so focus will be magnified.  Is part of the image in focus or completely 100% blurry? 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2011, 11:27:55 AM »
It looks like this is a problem with all 7d . Has the Eos1D Mk1v got the same handicap?  I don't want to be disappointed again .If the camera did what the brochures ? This 7D will always have a place in my heart even if it is in a display cab-net
Very sad
paddy

I have used many DSLR's over the years.  Film images looked sharp, until I scanned them and put them on a large monitor like my digital photos, then they were obviously inferior.

I ordered a new 7D when they were announced, and when mine arrived, I went to a local park and tried shooting some ducks and seagullys flying around.  Every shot was out of focus.  So, I expermented with the settings, and found that I had just used the green box thinking that on a new camera, that was a good place to start.  Wrong!  It was all the wrong settings for birds flying, and the camera was focusing on the nearest object, which may not have been where I wanted it to focus.  My second try was much better, and my third try, the camera did a near perfect job of focusing.  All the out of focus shots were due to my error.

I did not keep the camera though, but returned it, because I just preferred my 5D MK II for all around shooting, and the 7D was too expensive for a backup.  i bought a nice used 40D for a backup.  I eventually bought a used 1D MK III for a 2nd camera, and far prefer it to the 7D, but thats just a personal preference.  I keep my 100-400mmL on the 1D, they seem to me to have been made for each other.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2011, 11:30:00 AM »
  Canon 70_200 2.8 is 11 USM I believe It looks like this is a problem with all 7d . Has the Eos1D Mk1v got the same handicap?  I don't want to be disappointed again .

Depends on what handicap you're talking about.  There are a lot of things that can cause a blurry image, and as has been noted, the 7D has a very sophisticated AF system with many settings and permutations.  If it's a case of user error, then yes, the 1DIV will have the same handicap, unless you hand it to someone else.  Hopefully, Canon can fix your problem, if there is one.  Personally, my 7D delivers amazingly crisp images, and while I realize that defects can occur in any manufacturing process, a statement like, "It looks like this is a problem with all 7d," is patently wrong.
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awinphoto

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2011, 11:33:14 AM »
  Canon 70_200 2.8 is 11 USM I believe It looks like this is a problem with all 7d . Has the Eos1D Mk1v got the same handicap?  I don't want to be disappointed again .

Depends on what handicap you're talking about.  There are a lot of things that can cause a blurry image, and as has been noted, the 7D has a very sophisticated AF system with many settings and permutations.  If it's a case of user error, then yes, the 1DIV will have the same handicap, unless you hand it to someone else.  Hopefully, Canon can fix your problem, if there is one.  Personally, my 7D delivers amazingly crisp images, and while I realize that defects can occur in any manufacturing process, a statement like, "It looks like this is a problem with all 7d," is patently wrong.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2011, 11:33:14 AM »

justsomedude

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2011, 12:53:10 PM »
It's unfortunate to see this thread go down the similar path as those over at DPreview.com, which is an attitude of condescension and arrogance to those who complain of soft focus.  I'm truly amazed when I see posts pointing the blame at users who "haven't learned" how to use their 7D properly, "haven't read the manual", or are just simply too stupid for a "beast" such as the 7D after starting on a Rebel.  But when guys like Darwin Wiggett are reporting the exact same issue, it's hard for me to believe that he's a retard who has no idea how to use a camera.

This type of approach to users who clearly have repeatable problems with auto-focus is not only unhelpful, but says far more about those who are unable to provide legitimate advice, than those complaining of OOF images.  You get great images on your 7D?  Great, that doesn't mean everyone else with an AF problem is a moron. 

Tripod Focus Test, with remote shutter release >>  http://akphotodenver.com/images/7Dlenstest.jpg  (note:  I never - ever - had this problem on my 40D).
Sample Gallery >>  http://www.akphotodenver.com/client/claire/  (note:  Almost every image is focused on baby's eyelid, yet every image is clearly front focused 2-3 inches - especially at full res.  I used excessive clarity adjustments in some instances to try and hide the poor focus)

I have used a 10D, then a 40D, before ultimately upgrading to my 7D.  Never in my experience with digital cameras have I ever had to deal with so many non-keepers than I have with my 7D.  I shoot 99% of the time in full manual, custom preset, or aperture priority mode.  The bulk of my images are One Shot focus in the single shot shooting mode, with a manually selected single point of focus used (I just don't like the zone modes).  My 10D and 40D made tack sharp images using this approach, yet applying the same method to the 7D yields atrocious keeper rates.

I'd really be amazed that Canon would release a product that is so advanced that it takes a special person to learn how to use it.  That is simply a poor business model to implement.  "Yeah, we know most manufacturers sell products where you can open a camera box, put on a lens, select a manual focus point and shoot a sharp image - but - NAAAAH... we would NEVER want our camera to do THAT!"  I mean, do you really want me to believe that "typical" use of the 7D SHOULDN'T yield good results?  Come on.

___________________________________
PS:  I have a slew of sequential images that I submitted to Canon with my latest return to service.  Focus is all over the map in sequences of 6-8 shots, even with selected focus point on exact same subjcet - exact same distance from lens.  I'll post them when I get home tonight for review/comment.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2011, 01:24:13 PM »
This type of approach to users who clearly have repeatable problems with auto-focus is not only unhelpful, but says far more about those who are unable to provide legitimate advice, than those complaining of OOF images.  You get great images on your 7D?  Great, that doesn't mean everyone else with an AF problem is a moron.

Hopefully no one here is stating that.  I know that I'm not.  But the other side of the problem is a lack fo details from some posters with the problem.  "My 7D takes blurry pictures."  "Doctor, I don't feel well."  Neither statement provides sufficient details to identify the nature of the problems.  I'd certainly be happy to provide legitimate advice, given more information. 

In another forum a user complained about his new 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II - he tried three copies of the lens, and on all three of them, "the bottom of the picture was out of focus."  It turned out the lenses were fine, and the real problem was that he wasn't expecting the substantial amount of foreground blur that results from  200mm f/2.8 (a lot of background blur too, obviously, but he was expecting that so he didn't complain about the top of the picture being OOF as well).  But it took a fair bit of digging and back and forth questioning to get to that conclusion.  Now he's happy with his lens.

The moral is that sometimes the equipment is to blame for the problem, sometimes the user is to blame, and sometimes neither is doing anything wrong, but the user's expectations aren't in line with the capabilities of the equipment.
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awinphoto

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2011, 02:09:21 PM »
justsomedude, I hope you dont take my posts the wrong way either.  Over the years, I know a lot of people who really dont spend time with their gear to really appreciate it and master it... Too many times they will take a handful of frames, say it's crap, move on, and post on blogs everywhere "this camera is horrible, yada yada yada"... Too many times people who are the fence will read posts and make judgements about something without knowing the full discussion without trying out and mastering the equipment beforehand. 

I'm familiar with your situation and post and your need for MA.  I dont know what happened since we last posted, however if you need to send equipment in to make sure it's fully up to par with Canon, great... however after that point, it may not be an equipment problem but a user problem if it still exists.  Personally, I've gone from using 4x5's to medium format to digital... I've used the first nikon digitals plus canon's first D60 through 10D to 30D to 50D to 7D... I've also shot with the 1d and 1ds... the 7D is the first camera in which i had the feeling of "holy crap, I need to grow into a better photographer to make the most out of this camera".  Like scaleusa, my first photoshoot everyshot with my 7D was OOF... it was horrible... I thought I had a bad camera... I learned all the settings, all the modes, learned which i like better than others for how I shoot... I upped my ante and shoot daily with the camera, and now it's rarity i get OOF shots unless its an extreme low light situation or when I'm pushing my lenses to the limit regarding light vs speed. 

I will concede that there are bad copies of every camera, however if after you send your camera in to get checked (with lenses), then I think it's either a situation where someone almost needs to fully spend the time to master the equipment, check your expectations, and or move to better equipment.  As i've said in other posts, if you or anyone have questions, feel free to ask and or email me before giving up on a camera which may or may not be the problem.   
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2011, 04:11:33 PM »
justsomedude, you may have some legitimate concerns, but when you resort to bigoted, inappropriate stereotyping rather than logic to make your point, it causes me to write you off.

Perhaps you should spend a little time at this site: http://www.r-word.org/
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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2011, 07:02:18 PM »
It's disappointing that respondents on this forum have to resort to silly comments to try and get their point across.  I like my 7d.  I get great tack sharp pictures from it.  If that's not the case with some users, then maybe all the people who are dissatisfied should buy/use other cameras and be happier.  I think I'll stop posting here and forget offering my $0.02.  Enjoy your cameras everybody and "have a nice day".

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2011, 07:57:57 PM »
Quote
I think I'll stop posting here and forget offering my $0.02

I hope you'll reconsider. I hate for the jerks to win.
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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2011, 07:57:57 PM »

Pax

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2011, 09:32:56 AM »
It was invigorating to get your prompt response
Having photographic experience since 1964(that was when Kodak Type3 ortho film was around) look it up
I tried 1)Center  pin  focus
           2)Mirror lock
           3)Shutter 2000+
           4)Max light
           5)Weighted down Tripod out of the wind( we don't have earth tremors here)
           6)Lowest ISO
           7)External shutter release
           8)Manual and auto focus
I felt the problem not auto focus or the non Pro lenses. Through the eye piece the image is outstanding.
Help me if I am wrong    The problem is between capturing and storing the info.   May be a fine adjustment.
I am pleased to hear that the density on a sensor is greater than a transparency. That is a great plus for HDR
I  on my 7D  Color gradation delicate.... shadow to three quarter tone smooth.... quarter tone to hi-lite...catch light snappy.
a bit disappointed with the soft shades around the molding of face and skin tones. any help.   besides portraiture mode.
Please give your input    I enjoyed your constructive criticism        Now your superior advice.
A new body for me end, mid 2012?    The new 5D or Eos1D    When the new models come out.
low light wild life..........sports including fast martial art  movements. 
I am re inspired with MY 7D. maybe it can sleep on the pillow with me again and not go to the display cabinet
Will let you know what results when it gets back
thanx
pax
 

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2011, 01:29:08 PM »
Hey Neuroanatomist.

I have 3- Sandisk Extreme 4 8gb. 45mb/s cards would I be better off shooting in RAW then?

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Re: 7D focusing question??
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2011, 01:29:08 PM »