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Author Topic: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware  (Read 24041 times)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2012, 11:47:15 PM »


...charging what the market will bear (in their estimate) and thus maximizing profit, which in turn maximizes shareholder value, which is their obligation as a publicly held corporation.


giving up domination of a market segment to merely become a secondary player so you can charge more per copy might actually not maximize profit long run

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2012, 11:47:15 PM »

Promature

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2012, 12:01:11 AM »
Wait, um, why is this news?  Video card manufacturers (AMD and nVidia) have been doing this for years.  They have their consumer card and their pro card.  They are physically identical to the last detail, yet the pro version is 10x more expensive.   You know why?  Because the pro version has drivers to run all of the workstation applications and are optimized for better performance under those applications.  You know what too?  If you use that pro graphics card to play video games it's going to suck wind.

Programming costs money, and is usually more expensive than any hardware costs.
I would argue that hardware development can be fairly expensive also.

I am talking about when the hardware is the same, be it video cards or camera bodies.
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bvukich

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2012, 12:02:25 AM »
This breaking news just in...

Photoshop elements and Creative Suite are both comprised of binary 1s & 0s, therefore it's one of my fundamental human rights to get CS for the same price as Elements!  Anyone that thinks differently is immoral, unethical, and should probably be charged as a terrorist...

 ::)

Jotho

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2012, 12:07:31 AM »
Wait, um, why is this news?  Video card manufacturers (AMD and nVidia) have been doing this for years.  They have their consumer card and their pro card.  They are physically identical to the last detail, yet the pro version is 10x more expensive.   You know why?  Because the pro version has drivers to run all of the workstation applications and are optimized for better performance under those applications.  You know what too?  If you use that pro graphics card to play video games it's going to suck wind.

Programming costs money, and is usually more expensive than any hardware costs.
I would argue that hardware development can be fairly expensive also.

I am talking about when the hardware is the same, be it video cards or camera bodies.
Understand and agree.

Jotho

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2012, 12:08:35 AM »
This breaking news just in...

Photoshop elements and Creative Suite are both comprised of binary 1s & 0s, therefore it's one of my fundamental human rights to get CS for the same price as Elements!  Anyone that thinks differently is immoral, unethical, and should probably be charged as a terrorist...

 ::)
Or at least deemed persona non grata and shall never be spoken of again.

Ew

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2012, 01:33:25 AM »
While they seem almost the same, the price structure takes into account mfg and development costs.

I'm no insider, but it's obvious that Canon had to do a lot of luring of the motion pic to industry to comment, test implementations, review, then review modify and around the circle again until a given performance leve is achieved in the end. Same for 1dx with the photography market.

Then moving on to manufacturing, how do you minimize costs without cutting off customers (1dx) ?
Its likely that running two sep lines here would cost more. The question is then, the 1Dx customer can pay for a pro series body, but for for features they don't need at the level required by a very vertical market.

So it's not: 1Dc = 1Dx + firmware
But rather: 1Dx = 1Dc - firmware

And I'm not talking algebra here, it ends up being more of a marketing approach.

Canon also needs to keep then line apart from getting to close to the 100,300,500 series bodies.

In following to another current thread .. Perhaps this is a case when a "pay for firmware" model could have been a good solution.
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devank

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2012, 01:53:16 AM »
Shawn L from pdi by any chance ?  :P
Being a programmer myself, I agree :)

Shawn L.

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2012, 01:53:16 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2012, 06:16:19 AM »
Unethical...  Immoral...

You keep using those words.  I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up:

Production costs are of minuscule to no importance in determining retail price.  Canon can charge what they choose.  If you don't like the price, don't buy (or wait and see if it drops, ala 5DIII).  A wheelbarrow is not listed among our assets.
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simonxu11

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Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2012, 06:57:57 AM »
It's Canon, you know it!!

JasonATL

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2012, 07:47:01 AM »
I don't see the justification for outrage toward Canon for charging more for certain features in one set of firmware compared to another. As others have pointed out, this is exactly what software is. If it hasn't been mentioned already, MS Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate, etc. is just another example.

What I find disappointing by Canon is the decision (so far) to not sell an "upgrade", or more appropriately, a "conversion" kit for a 1DX to make it a 1DC.

Indeed, a la carte pricing (see, for example, the smartphone in your hand) might just be on the horizon. With Magic Lantern, we almost have this (never minding the fact that this system is, by no means, "open" or built for apps).

Ant_Pap_Cy

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Canon confirm 1D C 4K DSLR is identical hardware to a 1D X
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2012, 08:43:50 AM »
Just read this article and i lost my mind.... not sure what to say really !!! Oh well, here it is and make up your own minds!!! Do you really think a software upgrade can justify a £10,000 price increase ???:o

http://www.eoshd.com/content/9044/exclusive-canon-confirm-1d-c-4k-dslr-is-same-hardware-as-the-1d-x

Chewy734

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2012, 08:45:13 AM »
What is appalling about this?

A macbook and a macbook with creative suite have the exact same hardware, yet the one with creative suite will cost you an extra 3.5k.

Youre essentially paying for the software that costs the company money and time to develop. Programmers arent free guys.

I agree, programmers aren't free guys.  But that being said, your analogy is flawed.  A more correct analogy is that you have to buy a Macbook with CS6 for $3.5k more.  You can't buy a Macbook and later decide you want to get CS6 and just buy the software for an additional upgrade free.

That is what Canon has done.  Although that is not necessarily morally wrong, it's definitely frowned upon and hurts their high-end customers.  I don't understand their reasoning behind it.  What sort of misguided business decision was this?  They obviously know they made a mistake, otherwise why hide the only difference being the firmware and say "oh, it's because of heat dissipation, bandwidth issues, etc".  They made is sound like that they upgraded the inside significantly, instead of just removing the X and adding a red C on the outside. Ugh.  >:(

marekjoz

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2012, 08:48:44 AM »
I feel a great respect for them to admitting it. Really!
I feel it more ethical, than hiding it in some marketing bullshit.
As an electronic engineer and programmer (from time to time) myself, I feel more confidence in Canon engineers, they were able to produce one good hardware equipment and use it for different purposes. That's lowering total costs of production and this is good for us - customers.

All guys spitting on Canon because of this - you should really rethink your business and world imagination. Truely.

First of all - do you work somewhere? Let's assume you don't run your own business but work on a monthly based payment. Do you have savings? If so, then you should shame! If you have savings, then it means, that you charged for your work more, than it really costed! Bad boys! If you run your business, even photography or cinema one - how much do you charge for your work? In such a case don't you like to say: "my work is worth this money"? What does it have common with costs you made?

Secondly - if you don't like this and you are still where you live, then you should move to other country, were market liberty is not on the level, allowing to demand for the product or service as much, as someone is willing to pay for it. This is not the product of the "first need". This is not bread, milk or electric current. This is equipment made to make money for those, who can. If you cannot afford it because your work is too weak or your customers won't pay enough then this is not equipment for you so stop whining.

Would I like it for my amateur work? Yes. Do I consider it? No. If I had customers willing repay for it in some time I would consider but as a tool but also would consider a competition.

Is it wrong they don't want to sell an upgrade to allow you shooting at 4k with 1Dx? Only market will punish them if this is the wrong decision.

Is it wrong they admitted this is the same equipment? No, and +1000 (points, not $) for them ;-)

That's my honest opinion.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 08:50:59 AM by marekjoz »
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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2012, 08:48:44 AM »

bbasiaga

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Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2012, 08:49:48 AM »
The tax man strikes again! 

It would be interesting to hear from their actual engineers.  When a sales/marketing/executive guy says 'basically the same'....it makes me wonder about the important details that are NOT the same that an engineer understands.

I'm sure many will wish that they got the upgrade for free, or feel they are in some other way slighted by Canon, but its interesting insight in to some of the factors that go in to business and product decisions.  If the 1DX had the features, it would have to be EVEN MORE expensive (and it was already blasted for beeing too expensive) due to tax/business law.   I've seen some stuff like that with cars and firearms - where features, engine power, or something had to be changed to allow the product to be competitive within the framework of import and tax laws. 

-Brian


Ant_Pap_Cy

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Re: Canon confirm 1D C 4K DSLR is identical hardware to a 1D X
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2012, 08:59:42 AM »
Sorry had not seen them ! Had been to busy at work recently and didnt get much time searching the forum so the moment a friend had send me the link i thought i'd post it here. Thanks for the heads up !!! :D
Just pondering what the real capabilities of the 5DM3 could be with a software upgrade ! But oh well, great camera non the least !!!!
Cheers !!!

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Re: Canon confirm 1D C 4K DSLR is identical hardware to a 1D X
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2012, 08:59:42 AM »