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Author Topic: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware  (Read 24894 times)

K-amps

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2012, 01:02:24 PM »
I feel a great respect for them to admitting it. Really!

Really? someone ripped the innards of the 1Dc to find it is same as the 1Dx and when Canon were caught lying with their pants down;  so they fessed and you are stilling finding excuses for them?  What I respect is your unquestional loyalty to them.

Come on... Where did they lie? What is really wrong in this practice? I feel respect for you work but what you write here is insane. Loyalty has nothing to do here. I don't feel respect for canon because this is canon but because of this action. Am I really so loyal? Read other my posts. My point of view has nothing to do with loyalty.

Someone has written here a good summarize: grow up people...

Apologies for coming on a bit strong there buddy...

I will say though; I hope ML can crack the firmware so that all my 1Dx buddies can have a 1Dc when they want.  :)

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2012, 01:02:24 PM »

DB

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »
OMG! I just learned that for years the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable were the same car with just different options and nameplate. That's so immoral!

Yeah but does a Mercury Sable cost twice as much as a Ford Taurus? I think not (Q.E.D.), that's just branding. But to build a car with a V8 engine, then use the Engine Management System  (EMS) to switch off 4 cylinders and sell it for $25,000, then offer the same car with same nameplate (apart from one letter) for $50,000 is not immoral, it is just business stupidity as the owner will eventually find a workaround.

Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

K-amps

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2012, 01:10:49 PM »
Unethical...  Immoral...

You keep using those words.  I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

 Unrealistic whiners who would fail as corporate leaders.

They also would probably cry that BMW puts in restrictions on the US versions of the M5 that limit it's maximum horsepower and still charge you over $100k for the car.

So you want to apply the standard of corporate leaders (that constitute less than 1% of the population) to the general masses / consumers? Really?

I could also argue that it makes less sense for them to price their products they way they are and might infact be better off (considering the relative price elasticity) lowering prices on some products thereby increasing overall profitability due to volume and market share captured...; heck..  some execs in Canon marketing might also feel the same way but some other guys disagree... thats fine, it's how life is, your opinion vs mine.

On the Car analogy... Sorry bad example; the crippling of the M5 was more to do with regulations rather than BMW raping it's US consumer base...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 01:15:26 PM by K-amps »
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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2012, 01:12:01 PM »
This is the sort of thing competition is supposed to destroy in a capitalist system. The companies should be releasing the best products they can at a fair markup, not artificially segmenting markets and dribbling out capability when it suits them.
I hope today we all learned that capitalism doesn't advance anything but capitalists :)

+1 and when they have sucked dry all the rest... they will wonder why people are not buying anymore...
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K-amps

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2012, 01:14:43 PM »
Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

+1: When I was studying Marketing years ago... I vaguely remember a quote: saying that a happy customer will talk to 1 potential customer about their expereiences with a company, but a pissed off customer will talk to 14 !!  Canon... don't piss off your customers.
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GuyF

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2012, 01:30:13 PM »
Welcome to a capitalist society.

Here's how it works: get hold of some capital and do something so that it increases.

Want me to run over that one more time?

Every manufacturer on the planet probably does the same as Canon with some of their products. A while back a Sony repair engineer told me two of their TV models were identical apart from the more expensive one had the flag for Teletext enabled in it's firmware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext). Change the flag and charge £99 more.

The Rolls Royce Ghost uses the BMW 7-series chassis. The Aston Martin Cygnet is a re-badged Toyota IQ. The Sony 300mm f2.8 looks remarkably similar to the Canon 300mm f2.8  :o etc.

Canon are not unique.

JasonATL

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »
Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

Maybe. But perhaps those who bought a 1DX at half the price of a 1DC figure they got a bargain, by your reasoning. But, either way, this misses the entire point.

The price of a 1DX compared to a 1DC isn't the relevant comparison. At this time, I cannot buy a 1DX and get the capabilities of a 1DC. Canon sells hardware and software bundled together, not separately (yet). The relevant choices for someone who wants/needs the features of the 1DX are competitors to the 1DC. And this is the relevant benchmark by which Canon should price its products.

If you don't think one of Canon's products is worth its price. Don't buy it. Don't accuse them of immorality or a lack of ethics. And, for those who bemoan the capitalist system: Keep in mind that if it weren't for such a system, you wouldn't have the product development advances that this industry has experienced. Without a profit motive, there is no advancement of the technology. Some might say they agree with this and then try to claim that the profit Canon seeks is beyond "fair." The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »

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Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2012, 01:37:51 PM »
Another way to look at it is that the 4K market is poised to drop in price dramatically over the next few years.  Would the 1DX be different if it didn't have the physical capability to support 4K?  Probably, and it might have been a little less expensive to produce, but Canon saved a lot of R&D by having a platform that supported both the 1DX and 4K video.  Canon isn't marketing the 1DC to photographers/small video outfits.  It's charging what the market will bear.  Early adopters pay the price premium -- what else is new?

However, if ML were able to crack the 1 DX, then the price will fall quickly.  Or if more competitors entered the market at a lower price, then the price will fall also.  But if the hardware is the same between the 1DC/1DX, then Canon can still make money by selling a 4K for $7k.  Go competition and ML!

marekjoz

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2012, 01:43:43 PM »
Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

(...)The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.

...untill there is a monopoly and the product is a must.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:02:09 PM by marekjoz »
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Rat

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2012, 01:46:55 PM »
If you don't think one of Canon's products is worth its price. Don't buy it. Don't accuse them of immorality or a lack of ethics. And, for those who bemoan the capitalist system: Keep in mind that if it weren't for such a system, you wouldn't have the product development advances that this industry has experienced. Without a profit motive, there is no advancement of the technology. Some might say they agree with this and then try to claim that the profit Canon seeks is beyond "fair." The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.
(1) there is no such thing as an absolute moral. Therefore, 'fair' does not exist. I know you know, I'm just hammering the point home.
(2) please stop making me understand the business ethics of Apple. I'd like to keep hating them.
Fed up with brandism.

DB

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2012, 01:47:57 PM »
I have no problem with Canon charging $X for a product, but then charging $XX for a different model. You're right, we don't have to buy either of them. But what I do have a problem with is them admitting that the only difference between them is the software running on them, because no-one here condemns ML for hacking Canon's existing firmware in the 5DIII, 60D, 550D, and so on (or the hacked Panasonic GH2).

You cannot have it both ways. If you accept that Canon sells the 1Dc more because of the software, then it is okay for a 1DX owner to use different software on their camera to achieve the same result.

@K-Amps, I really hope that ML or someone else cracks the 1DX/1Dc firmware, so that people like you can film 4K footage on your 1DX, then playback on your new Sony 84" TV, whilst the rest of us can watch your uploaded YouTube videos @ 'Original' (YouTube compression) on our 1600 x 900 laptop screens and say....WOW 8)

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2012, 01:48:35 PM »
When people like this exist you can charge whatever for whatever...

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2012, 01:56:54 PM »
the rest of us can watch your uploaded YouTube videos @ 'Original' (YouTube compression) on our 1600 x 900 laptop screens and say....WOW 8)
You, sir, are an evil man :D
Fed up with brandism.

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2012, 01:56:54 PM »

DB

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2012, 01:57:36 PM »
This is the sort of thing competition is supposed to destroy in a capitalist system. The companies should be releasing the best products they can at a fair markup, not artificially segmenting markets and dribbling out capability when it suits them.
I hope today we all learned that capitalism doesn't advance anything but capitalists :)

One of my favourite Prof. J.K. Galbraith quotes:

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite"

But my most favourite of his quotations (and most relevant to this forum) is:

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof"

bp

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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »
Feeling enraged over something like this is understandable.

Feeling surprised, on the other hand.... welcome to the world.

Call a local bakery (like a private bakery type place, not a grocery store) and ask for a quote for a birthday cake to feed a party of 50.  Now hang up and call them back a half hour later, and ask for a quote for a wedding cake to feed a party of 50.
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Re: Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »