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Author Topic: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?  (Read 3452 times)

mirekti

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Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« on: September 21, 2012, 02:23:04 PM »
I know IS would sometimes (old lenses) get confused, but I wondered if that's still the issue?
In other words, is IS on newer lense smart enought to recognize there's no shake/movement so it disables itself?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:23:44 PM by mirekti »
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Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« on: September 21, 2012, 02:23:04 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 02:39:21 PM »
The 70-200 II has a tripod-sensing IS system.  According to Canon (link):

"Canon addressed the ‘feedback loop’ in later model IS lenses by introducing an algorithm to the IS detection system to automatically recognise when the lens is mounted to a tripod. When these lenses are mounted on a tripod and the shutter button is pressed halfway, the IS system kicks in and the image in the viewfinder can be seen to go through a very slow vertical shift for about one second.

If the shutter button remains depressed halfway the IS system detects the lack of motion and automatically switches into a special mode. In this mode IS detects and corrects for mirror slap and shutter movement at slow speeds, but not for ‘normal’ lens shake. There is no advantage to be gained in turning off the IS function or locking the mirror prior to exposure.
"

Pre-1999 IS don't have this feature and the IS should be turned off when on a tripod:

EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
EF 300mm f/4L IS USM

Despite the bolded sentence above, note that you'd need to have the IS system active (via shutter half-press or AF ON press) for >1 s to have it effectively reduce mirror/shutter vibration but not reduce sharpness.  If you just AF then shoot, the IS hasn't settled down yet - and that may explain Marsu42's observation of reduced sharpness with the 100L and 70-300L, both of which have tripod-sensing IS. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 02:45:00 PM by neuroanatomist »
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Marsu42

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 02:49:27 PM »
There is no advantage to be gained in turning off the IS function or locking the mirror prior to exposure."

Apart from Canon saying so, my experiences with shots w/ long shutter speeds of 1s+ are different (with 100L & 70-300L) - I am clearly getting sharper pictures with IS off and mirror lock up. It might not make a difference with faster shutter speeds.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 05:24:13 PM »
You can test to see if IS is turning off properly.  Teather the camera to your pc and view the liveview image with 5X magnigication.  After a few seconds, the image will begin to wander around for tripod mounted lenses with the old IS system like my 100-400mmL.
Its entirely possible that a lens is malfunctioning and it does not turn off.

Marsu42

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 05:56:33 PM »
Despite the bolded sentence above, note that you'd need to have the IS system active (via shutter half-press or AF ON press) for >1 s to have it effectively reduce mirror/shutter vibration but not reduce sharpness.  If you just AF then shoot, the IS hasn't settled down yet - and that may explain Marsu42's observation of reduced sharpness with the 100L and 70-300L, both of which have tripod-sensing IS.

Yes, that's exactly it - with the blurred tripod shots I was focusing and then immediately shooting while I     unconscious wait a little when hand-holding and looking through the viewfinder.

To prevent this effect my choice for tripod work would really be still "old schoold" IS off + mlu + 2sec timer, but I'll try to compare this to Canon's choice when I have some time - mlu deals with the mirror movement, and I doubt shutter movement has a large impact on sharpness (or does it)?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 06:08:46 PM »
The first shutter curtain can make a difference.  See:

http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html

Live View is a workaround, since that uses an electronic first curtain.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 06:14:35 PM »
Despite the bolded sentence above, note that you'd need to have the IS system active (via shutter half-press or AF ON press) for >1 s to have it effectively reduce mirror/shutter vibration but not reduce sharpness.  If you just AF then shoot, the IS hasn't settled down yet - and that may explain Marsu42's observation of reduced sharpness with the 100L and 70-300L, both of which have tripod-sensing IS.

Yes, that's exactly it - with the blurred tripod shots I was focusing and then immediately shooting while I     unconscious wait a little when hand-holding and looking through the viewfinder.

To prevent this effect my choice for tripod work would really be still "old schoold" IS off + mlu + 2sec timer, but I'll try to compare this to Canon's choice when I have some time - mlu deals with the mirror movement, and I doubt shutter movement has a large impact on sharpness (or does it)?
I've found that for normal reasonably fast shutter speeds, IS isn't really needed until I get around 300-400mm equivalent focal length.  Most of the time, I could turn it off and never worry.
With a crop body which has a high pixel density like the 7D, IS is useful at a much reduced focal length.

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 06:14:35 PM »

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 06:19:52 PM »
The first shutter curtain can make a difference.  See:

http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html

Live View is a workaround, since that uses an electronic first curtain.

So to use this feature (the electronic first curtain) do we have to enable <Silent Shooting> on the 4th menu of the 7D?

If so, it shows Mode 1 and Mode 2 options (i know that one is for continuous shooting, the other for single) as well as Disable, but I was under the impression that these were modes to be used in conjunction with LV when you were in a church or taking photos at a wedding where noise was a factor.

Marsu42

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripd?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »
Live View is a workaround, since that uses an electronic first curtain.

Thanks for the link -  btw with a tripod I'm using focus peaking of Magic Lantern in lv 99% of the time - mostly for macro & focus stacking.

With a crop body which has a high pixel density like the 7D, IS is useful at a much reduced focal length.

So you actually think a 1s exposure with a 100mm (on crop) might be sharper with tripod IS than with mlu + live view? I'll really try this the next time. I don't entirely trust Canon on this because of course they want to praise and sell their IS and the newest version on the latest lenses if possible.

tron

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 08:07:56 PM »
My 70-200 f/4L IS definitely needs IS turned to off. I had extremely shaken photos taken on a steady tripod with Mirror Lock and Timer (shutter was open for many seconds) when IS was ON. I turned it off and the images were very sharp. I even found in its manual Canon's suggestion that the lens' IS has to be turned off when the used camera mode is Bulb.

Now, the 2.8 IS II is a newer lens but still, I would turn IS off to be on the safe side...

Marsu42

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 04:35:00 AM »
Now, the 2.8 IS II is a newer lens but still, I would turn IS off to be on the safe side...

I tried neuro's suggestion a couple of times and left IS on, hoping for the magic tripod detection on my 100L. Result: On longer exposure shots of 1/4s+ the shots with mirror lockup & IS off are sharper than the ones with IS on, even after a 10s timer so the IS could settle & turn off eventually. Shorter exposure times might be better, and it surely isn't the catastrophe an older IS system w/o tripod detection might result in, but my money is still on mlu if I've got the time.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 06:10:43 AM »
Good to know, thanks!
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infared

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 07:52:05 AM »
Please: READ LENS INSTRUCTIONS!  8)
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, user-manual quote (section:tips on using the image stabilizer):
"Using a tripod also stabilizes the image. However, depending on the kind of tripod and shooting conditions, sometimes it may be better to turn off the Image Stabilizer function".
So I do not know what all the talk is about IS lenses after 1999??????????????????????????????????
BTW I own the lens. (so this is not idle talk)
I do know that I used the lens this weekend on a tripod to shoot bracketed HDR images with slow shutter speeds.
1.4 sec to 4 sec. (approx).
My subject matter was stationary.
I used a carbon fiber tripod (Feisol) with extra weight support hanging on the hook.
I used manual focus and live view on a 5DIII. (SOOOOOOOO much faster than mirror lock up)
All of the images were AMAZINGLY sharp. (ESPECIALLY for a zoom lens..damn, Canon got this one right!)
Why wonder. Use good practical technique. Why would I turn on image stabilization in this shooting situation? Do I need any gyros running? Do I need them turning on or turning off or any of that? Do I need to wonder if gyros might be turning on or turning off?   Is there any reason that they would benefit this shooting situation. NO. By Canons own admission in the user manual...its pot luck. When I get up at 5:00 AM and go set up before the sun to take some photos...I do not want pot luck.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 08:04:43 AM by infared »
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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 07:52:05 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 08:13:51 AM »
The talk about pre-1999 lenses is that for them, there's no option or ambiguity - you need to turn IS off.  FWIW, my 600mm f/4L IS II manual has exactly the same statement about the IS as the 70-200 II.  It doesn't mention the secondary IS mode that automatically senses a tripod being used and compensates for mirror slap, shutter vibrations, etc., at shutter speeds between 1/30th and 1 second.  That info comes from Chuck Westfall, but AFAIK it only applies to the superteles, not lenses like the 70-200 II or 100L.  So, that lens manual 'tip' sounds like a CYA statement from Canon (not the only one, either - the 600 II manual also indicates that I should send my lens to Canon to have them change the lens foot, as if I can't tighten four screws and use a bit of Loctite if necessary  ::) ).
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Re: Do you turn off IS on 70-200 mk II when on tripod?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 08:13:51 AM »